Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#141

Post by compiler-guy » Sun, Jul 02, 2023, 8:46 PM UTC

throwawayadvsec wrote: post #108

compiler-guy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t go to an Ivy League school, but I did go to Stanford. I assure you there are many of my classmates who failed at life, don’t have good jobs, and are otherwise don’t fit that description. An elite education is like a golden ticket, to be sure, but it doesn’t guarantee anything at all. Plenty of folks screw it up. Twenty-plus years now after my degree and no one cares at all about where I graduated. If I don’t…

The problem is that going to Stanford is skewing your definition of what "failing at life" is and of what a "good job" is.

This assumes way too much, and all of it without any evidence. In particular, it assumes that my entire sense of what constitutes success and failure comes from my admittedly elite education. But it has been decades since I graduated, and I have seen a lot of life since that time.

In the decades since we graduated, plenty of my classmates have dealt with suicidal behavior, long term disabilities due to alcoholism or stronger drugs, repeated failed marriages, and a complete inability to hold down a job.

Elite education sets you up for success, but it doesn’t just hand it to you once you get it. Plenty of people screw it up big time.

The self-destructive behavior described in the article can continue in other walks of life and it does catch up. Especially as you get further away from your college days.

Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#142

Post by searealist » Sun, Jul 02, 2023, 9:14 PM UTC

411111111111111 wrote: post #136

Gareth321 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are BS under the first definition. I provided a study which shows high correlation. Do you have any evidence to the contrary? I don’t agree with your summary of the premise. It doesn’t follow that more training means higher IQ scores, but I acknowledge it could mean higher SAT scores for individuals. Just not in aggregate.

Correlation is not causation and is meaningless for extrapolations. The only thing it provides is interesting data to discover the causality through further study. But I guess you're too far gone into narcissism to understand how dumb this has gotten.

The claim being made is correlation.

Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#143

Post by josh_fyi » Mon, Jul 03, 2023, 5:33 AM UTC

Xen9 wrote: post #7

josh_fyi wrote: post #5

I studied at Harvard and the answer is that they want to pretend to be so smart and talented that they don't need to work. The image is of the effete aristocrat who enjoys life without lifting a finger. Think of George W. Bush: Got into Yale (Harvard too!) because his blue-blood line always did. Mediocre grades. Lots of alcohol and drugs. (Quit that later.) Avoided Vietnam with the cushiest fun job as a fighter pilot…

Smart and talented people need to work. Wealthy people don't.

They imagine themselves as an aristocracy of talent, whose brilliance let's them live the life of the aristocracy of bloodlines.

Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#144

Post by Gareth321 » Mon, Jul 03, 2023, 12:58 PM UTC

411111111111111 wrote: post #136

Gareth321 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are BS under the first definition. I provided a study which shows high correlation. Do you have any evidence to the contrary? I don’t agree with your summary of the premise. It doesn’t follow that more training means higher IQ scores, but I acknowledge it could mean higher SAT scores for individuals. Just not in aggregate.

Correlation is not causation and is meaningless for extrapolations. The only thing it provides is interesting data to discover the causality through further study. But I guess you're too far gone into narcissism to understand how dumb this has gotten.

I made no claims about causation. The claim is correlation. Perhaps you should re-read the comments :)

Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#145

Post by 411111111111111 » Mon, Jul 03, 2023, 5:19 PM UTC

Gareth321 wrote: post #144

411111111111111 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correlation is not causation and is meaningless for extrapolations. The only thing it provides is interesting data to discover the causality through further study. But I guess you're too far gone into narcissism to understand how dumb this has gotten.

I made no claims about causation. The claim is correlation. Perhaps you should re-read the comments :)

you're extrapolation, thus you're using it as a causation.

Let me give you an example:

Swiss cheese has holes, by studying its properties you can find a correlation between the size of the cheese and the total volume of holes.

You do another study and find that as you increase the size of the holes the cheese, you're left with less grams of cheese.

by your logic, which extrapolates between these two unrelated studies finding different correlations, you can confidently state this:

  more cheese correlates with more holes
  more holes correlates with less cheese

  more cheese == less cheese

outstanding logic, indeed.