Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't know how so many people accept using it. Everyone I know who uses it only does so because their employers require them to.
I've been using Outlook for .. wow over 25 years now. Early on it was an unstable crashy mess, but in the past 15 years it has been rock solid, reliable, and more than fast enough for anything I've ever done with it. I am ... not happy that the full client is slated to go away at some point in the future. I know Outlook well; I know how to wield it effectively and to make it behave in the way I want it to. I have a M…
The new desktop Outlook is a bad idea
141–150 of 155 posts
Re: The new desktop Outlook is a bad idea
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
Teams is just a horrible product overall. It wouldn't be better with a completely native app.
I really don't get the Teams hate. Or lure organization uses Teams every day to great effect. None of its competitors have apps worth equivalent functionality at a similar price point. It absolutely has bugs and issues, but what it does and what it costs seem to easily outweigh those.
Yesterday i lost 5 minutes to change my picture profile in Teams. So good hidden.
+ other small antiuser features all over.
Re: The new desktop Outlook is a bad idea
#143Been using outlook web only for several years now. No messing with outlook pst/ost/sync issues and one less app hogging resources.
Re: The new desktop Outlook is a bad idea
#144Or asked another way, what would make you pay for an outlook alternative?
Re: The new desktop Outlook is a bad idea
#145Microsoft has been dismantling the desktop UX for me over the past few years. I think they’re migrating the entire UI into the browser. The Office macOS UI appears and feels substantially worse to me than its Windows counterpart. I had to migrate from Windows to macOS because I was no longer feeling comfortable on Windows. My UX with the Apple office suite is by far better. Put formally, the set difference between th…
> Microsoft has been dismantling the desktop UX for me over the past few years. I think they’re migrating the entire UI into the browser. I think it's more about trapping you in the MS365 silo than anything. They want all your data in the cloud because it makes it makes it non-portable. I think the big push they'll make after the desktop apps are replaced will be about data governance because it let's them increase l…
I'm at a manufacturer in the US in the NYC metro area, we pay $3k/month for 50 mbps guaranteed fiber internet (which we fully saturate). The upgrade to 100mbps was priced at $15k/month from the only provider in the area (used to be independent, then Optimum, and now all owned by the Altice monopoly)
It's a weird path Microsoft is on but I guess if only they want to knee cap their potential customer base long term, then :shrug:
Re: The new desktop Outlook is a bad idea
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
99% of HN suggest VSCode is very fast, when Sublime exist. It is one reason why the other day we have a submission "Windows NT on 600MHz machine opens apps instantly. What happened" Most people aren't latency sensitive. Or do not care about it enough. The world of computing has then settle of sluggish behaviour being the norm. As most are OK with it. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36446933
I’m pretty sure the apps do a lot more now than they did on windows XT. I wouldn’t build with Electron over something like Tauri+Svelte but I also don’t mind waiting 1 second for hundreds of great extensions and lsps to load once for a 4 hour session.
The question is whether that additional work is of any benefit to the user.
Re: The new desktop Outlook is a bad idea
#147Can it inline quote emails properly on MacOS? The regular outlook client was still unable to do so in 2022, last time I tried. I have no idea why people would like Outlook, it's an inferior experience compared to other email clients and calendar applications in my opinion. I can't even have my personal gmail calendar imported into my work calendar so nobody can schedule meetings for me when I'm picking up kids from a…
I used the new Outlook just long enough to see it was horrible at using existing rules and making new ones and just didn't try anything else. But I can't imagine why they would fix one little thing like properly handling inline quoting when they wrecked the remainder of what had been a decent corporate email app.
Re: The new desktop Outlook is a bad idea
#148Just curious, would people here pay for a Windows native mail client focused on offering a great user experience? I work on multiple Windows projects and had in mind to create my own mail client since a while, but I’m skeptical people would pay for one given the number of free options already available (even if they all kind of suck IMHO). Or asked another way, what would make you pay for an outlook alternative?
That's OK though. If you look at this thread, you can see there's been a shift in what people mean when they say "native". It used to be well defined: Win32 on Windows, Cocoa on OS X/iOS, GTK or Qt on Linux, app written in a C-derived language. Nowadays people are using it to mean "not web".
Why has this occurred, well, most people don't really care what exact libraries or languages an app uses. What they care about is the user experience. People are using the word native to mean stuff like, works offline, works with files, isn't too laggy, consumes reasonable amounts of RAM, integrates well with the OS. And above all - uses a sophisticated GUI toolkit. A big part of the native vs web experience gap is that although HTML has a lot of styling functionality it's a seriously impoverished UI toolkit, barely reaching Win 3.1 standards out of the box. So people roll their own widget toolkits that they layer on top, but none of them are all that good and the modern culture of conflating widget toolkits with design systems means they are constantly being tossed out and redone from scratch (this isn't unique to the web, Jetpack Compose has the same issue).
The result is that many widgets taken for granted by Windows 95 users like splitters, menu bars, status bars, pervasive keyboard accelerators, virtualized and editable table views, tree views, customizable toolbars, draggable tabs, floating tool windows etc are just gone and power users are the first to notice this.
You can therefore satisfy people's desire for native apps by providing that sort of UX regardless of what actual tools you use to do so.
Re: The new desktop Outlook is a bad idea
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't know how so many people accept using it. Everyone I know who uses it only does so because their employers require them to.
I've been using Outlook for .. wow over 25 years now. Early on it was an unstable crashy mess, but in the past 15 years it has been rock solid, reliable, and more than fast enough for anything I've ever done with it. I am ... not happy that the full client is slated to go away at some point in the future. I know Outlook well; I know how to wield it effectively and to make it behave in the way I want it to. I have a M…
I've been using it for as long as you, and I agree with these assessments. But those aren't the reasons why nobody I know uses it voluntarily, and everyone I personally know who uses it dislikes it.
Re: The new desktop Outlook is a bad idea
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's damning with faint praise, though, isn't it?
Is it? I'm pretty happy with vscode. I realize that if you actually measure responsiveness there are better options, but subjectively I'm happy while other "IDEs" are completely unusable for me (Visual Studio, JetBrains IDEs, Eclipse, ...).
I meant that comparing VSCode to the likes of JetBrains products and Eclipse isn't meaningful because JetBrains and Eclipse are fairly terrible in terms of performance and system load.
Comparing to native programs is more appropriate. Visual Studio is a native program, true, but I think it's a terrible one.
All that said, the IDE product space has become awful overall, and I struggle to find a modern good one. So, yeah...