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Svelte 4

svelte.dev

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Re: Svelte 4

#141

Post by rco8786 »

bananapub wrote: post #31
solarkraft wrote: post #22

Time for a very naive question. As somebody looking for a more effcient (less re-rendering) and nicer DX (template based, stuff like exit animations) alternative to React, what actually makes Svelte measurably better than Vue? On first (and very naive) look the two seem pretty similar, with the biggest difference being that Vue seems to have the much bigger ecosystem and more mature tooling (I keep hearing about Svel…

> I keep hearing about Svelte's flavor of JS basically being its own language now and it not playing all that well with Typescript it's a weird habit on HN to refer to random rumours that have discouraged you from trying something, and then explicitly not link to even the source of the random thing you're thinking of. I would guess you're misremembering something about the *developers of Svelte* saying they didn't th…

> it's a weird habit on HN to refer to random rumours that have discouraged you from trying something, and then explicitly not link to even the source of the random thing you're thinking of.

I don't know about you, but I don't keep a map of "random thought" to "url" anywhere. It seems totally fine/normal in a discussion forum to say "Hey i heard this thing, any substantiation to it?" without needing a source.

Re: Svelte 4

#142

Post by Tade0 »

nu11ptr wrote: post #13

Could someone give a one or two sentence explanation of why I would want to use Svelte over something like React? I have heard it is "better", but have never understood why.

You get a legible stack trace that actually points to something looking very much like your code.

There's also stuff like generally fewer LoC, more incentive to use native APIs and rebuild times measured in hundreds of milliseconds, but that first thing is what got me sold on Svelte.

Re: Svelte 4

#143

Post by chrisweekly »

chillbill wrote: post #128
chrisweekly wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you, but you might be projecting a bit. FTA: > "Svelte 3 was released more than four years ago! In JavaScript-framework-time, that's eons. Svelte’s freshness has persisted throughout, but Node.js and browser APIs have evolved during that time and today we’re updating Svelte to take advantage of some of these improvements. Svelte 4 is mainly a maintenance release, bumping minimum version requirements and tighte…

Maybe they shouldn't call it Svelte 4 then. Major version in semver are usually breaking.

It definitely qualifies, given e.g. its minimum required node.js version.

Re: Svelte 4

#144

Post by npn »

OJFord wrote: post #121
npn wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you clearly don't know what you are talking about. reactive declarations do not change the type of the objects. it just that they can rerun when the dependencies change. sure for the convenience of the users you do not need to type `let vars...` for every new variable declared in the reactive statement, but no one forbid you to write it before hand, or let the language server/plugin do it for you. but Svelte indeed d…

I think the claim is that it breaks TS parsing, not that it changes the type.

Then it's wrong too. Because it is perfectly valid js code. It is just that they repurpose the label syntax (used for breaking out of inner loops) for the reactive statement.

Re: Svelte 4

#145

Post by afavour »

hajile wrote: post #140
afavour wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is always a personal judgement, but here's my personal list: - I find it so much easier to understand. I don't have to useState/useEffect/whatever, I just assign variables and the component re-renders the relevant parts whenever I assign a new value. - Styling is "just" CSS. No messing around with CSS-in-JS libraries and their various ways of being invoked. The CSS is automatically scoped to your component witho…

I find reactive systems to be at least as complicated as React's declarative model. I was glad to move on from Knockout more than a decade ago and Svelte is conceptually the same thing in how they work, but with a different proprietary syntax and a faster renderer. I also don't understand the styling complaint. React devs used "just CSS" for years before some of them started pushing for CSS-in-JS. In fact, SCSS/CSS i…

As I said most of this is subjective so I won’t disagree but:

> copying similar code over and over

This isn’t true. Svelte is more than capable of reusing code internally.

Re: Svelte 4

#147

Post by jankiel »

Capricorn2481 wrote: post #43
thornewolf wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Massive reduction in boilerplate. As someone who attempted to onboard onto both react and svelte for a couple days each, react continued to feel hyper unintuitive with a bunch of magic constructs. Svelte felt like I could guess what would work and it just did. Caveat: since I went react -> svelte it's possible I was just warmed up to JS by that point

It's the opposite for me. React can be verbose but that's because a lot of it is explicit and has escape hatches. Svelte has magic that works until it doesn't and then you're stuck in Svelte land. It's not "just JS" despite people marketing it as such

I was stuck once by abusing `bind:` and other time with global exit transitions + sveltekit routing, but that's about it.

React on the other hand feels like a pot warming up and we're the frogs being boiled alive at this point. You can write some perfectly valid, but naive React code and it's going to have some footguns. We're so used to write idiomatic React code we don't even notice that anymore. You learn to use stable references in callback functions, to be careful using Context, and so on. But the list is not short, and it only grows.

Wanna write some naive code in svelte two days in? There's a good chance it's the same code you'd write a year later. Maybe that's what people mean by "just JS".

Re: Svelte 4

#148

Post by cjblomqvist »

solarkraft wrote: post #22

Time for a very naive question. As somebody looking for a more effcient (less re-rendering) and nicer DX (template based, stuff like exit animations) alternative to React, what actually makes Svelte measurably better than Vue? On first (and very naive) look the two seem pretty similar, with the biggest difference being that Vue seems to have the much bigger ecosystem and more mature tooling (I keep hearing about Svel…

I haven't worked with Svelte (but with Vue, so def biased) but my feeling is that where Vue really shines (and always have, compared to other frameworks) is it's data reactivity system, making data (including but not limited to) stores very nice to author.

The composability of Vue 3 data stores makes it imo really nice to work with for anything a little bit more complex, and I've yet to see anything as good.

Re: Svelte 4

#149

Post by dist-epoch »

barrongineer wrote: post #137
dist-epoch wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vue 3 is kind of dead. Almost no features in the last year. Look at the GitHub repo, little activity, mostly maintenance stuff. I suspect author (Evan) lost interest, given the Vue 2/3 situation (similar to Python 2/3) and the lost battle against React.

Really? Feature realease v3.3 was released just last month... https://blog.vuejs.org/posts/vue-3-3

Look at the GitHub commits in the 6 months before 3.3

Re: Svelte 4

#150

Post by ESchouten »

bodge5000 wrote: post #39

What an odd coincidence, after seeing Svelte for years I decided to actually try it for the first time yesterday, and now this drops. To be honest the timing of this is actually kind of a shame (just for me) as I haven't used it nearly enough to be particularly excited about this, but seeing as Svelte 3 was 4 years ago, I doubt I'll see another one anytime soon. All sounds great anyway, congrats to the team!

Svelte 5 is speculated to release as early as this year (2023)! Svelte 4 was mainly a maintenance release; updated dependencies, TS to JSDoc migration and more, in preparation for the development of Svelte 5. The reason Svelte 4 is a major version release is due to upgrading some dependencies like the Nodejs version making it a breaking change.
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