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French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

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Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#141

Post by lucasRW »

hkt wrote: post #88

It is worth remembering that France got its current constitution in a bloodless coup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1958_crisis_in_France It amazes me that the constitution that was put in place then is largely unchanged today, insofar as the French president is still incredibly powerful, parliament is subservient, and the electoral system is deeply majoritarian. I don't know exactly what it says about a society…

The president who set up this constitution is the only president who stepped down on his own after losing a vote at the Senate. I think you are a bit weak on the intricacies of the French political system/history, not even mentioning the fact that if you want to play that game, pretty much any political system was never self-generated and was by definition kickstarted by another system previously...

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#143

Post by wott »

lannisterstark wrote: post #66
getrealal wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. But this is not exactly new. The Macron government is now using "anti-terror" legislation that was passed by both left and right-wing governments over the past 20 years or so.

I'm really curious as to why Macron govt is looked up to by a lot of Americans. American citizens, with all of the country's flaws, tends to have a lot more inherent civil rights than most of these governments.

You always get only a really tiny window of information, selected by your medias, about foreign countries. (It doesn't matter which receiving country you are in, it is a general principle, not just about the USA).

In France, we almost only hear about other countries politics when there is a chance for a far right party to gain something. As far as all other domains are concerned, we may from time to time get a funny/shocking miscellaneous news item, and that's it.

Also, images/stereotypes about a country last a long time, long after they have stopped being true.

Ironically, perhaps the only emitting country that differs a bit is... the USA, for probably most countries over the planet are flooded with information and contemporary culture from the USA.

For example, to get back a bit to the original subject, people may know the American police and justice system better than their own. Like, French people when they are arrested would believe that they have enforceable rights and that rigorous processes are respected. Ah!

Once, in custody, I even had the impudence of requesting a lawyer as I was allowed to. LOL, no way. And it is not simply a problem of a rotten police: the prosecutor, the judges, they are all covering this up, it is the whole police+justice system which 'works' like this.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#144

Post by nolok »

marvin wrote: post #95
bambax wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation in France is dire and crazy. This will not end well.

I have had well-educated French acquaintences telling me for a decade that France is ripe for a new system of government; the 6th in its history. Many current problems stem from the fact that post-war mechanisms written into the governmental system are abused by the president and elected leaders. E.g. presidential overruling of parlamental votes.

> I have had well-educated French acquaintences telling me for a decade that France is ripe for a new system of government

First, this is not "well-educated French acquaintences" so much as it is supporters of Melanchon's LFI political party, who explicitely campaign on the idea of ending the 5th republic to start a 6th where all problem would be magically solved.

Second, the reason I hate his proposal, is because he explicitely refuses to give any specific detail on what the 6th republic would be. He claims it would be "decided by the public" but there is no reason why a pre work couldn't be done BEFORE. In effect, he pretends to be saying "we will end the 5th for a better 6th", but what he's actually saying is "let's end the one we have now instead of fixing it, and replace it with something I will have the power to decide, you must accept to throw it away without knowing what you will get in exchange or how it will be made but trust me it will totally be better and I will totally let the people decide".

Our 5th republic might be flawed, but I'm not putting it in the trash without any idea of what we will get in return, that's brexit referendum level of flawed.

And I will always be weary of someone who claims to have a simple solution to a complex problem, on the condition that I give him power over me, especially if another condition is that I cannot know what said solution is before making my decision.

Third,

> the 6th in its history

Would be the 6th republic sure, but absolutely not the 6th "system of government", it would be like our 25th or something ?

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#145

Post by nolok »

conradfr wrote: post #129
marvin wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had well-educated French acquaintences telling me for a decade that France is ripe for a new system of government; the 6th in its history. Many current problems stem from the fact that post-war mechanisms written into the governmental system are abused by the president and elected leaders. E.g. presidential overruling of parlamental votes.

We celebrate the revolution and throwing out the king while basically electing a new one every five years that will magically solve all of our problems.

We celebrate the revolution while ignoring it went terribly, being in terms of rights, economy or basically anything else, and we happily put an emperor on the throne less than a decade later

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#146

Post by lucasRW »

Kuinox wrote: post #111
explorer83 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think France is generally perceived here to have more progressive social policies regarding labor, education, healthcare and the environment. The limited media coverage I've seen about French elections seemed to paint Macron as the candidate more representative of those values.

Macron is not a fan of theses social policies, he is right leaning. His governement reduced labor protections, butchered educations, worsened public healthcare, and do nothing for the environment.

Economically right-leaning but culturally left-leaning, he's let in tens of thousands of migrants, does not expel them (cf. the "OQTF" stories pretty much every day), and on top of that, uses taxpayers money to fund them throughout the country.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#147

Post by [deleted] »

nestorD wrote: post #6

The key is that, while there is suspicion (the people arrested have a far left ideology, have been to Syria to fight against the Islamic state, own weapons and encrypt all of their communications), there is no crime nor proof of an intent to commit a crime . These people have been sent to prison because they are suspicious, not because of an action they have done (something made possible as a special case of an older…

[deleted]

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#148

Post by bad_login »

conradfr wrote: post #54
senttoschool wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When accused of authoritarian tendencies the government usually answers "go to China or North Korea to see what a dictatorship is like". China and North Korea exist on completely separate spectrums.

I guess the day they only name North Korea we will know we're done.

Ah ah like when we used to say : Russia, China and North Korea exist on completely separate spectrums.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#150

Post by mantas »

lannisterstark wrote: post #79
mantas wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically far left loves to take away civil rights just like any other extremists.

Problem is not that fighting for your civil right makes you a far left, problem is the potential definition you may have of the far left. If the people were advocating for a state-incorporated everything ala Soviet style communism, I'd agree with you. They aren't.

Another problem is how people define civil rights. We're past the point when „civil rights“ or „human rights“ had an universal meaning.

You want democracy? Good. You want to limit corporations to make sure small businesses stand a fair chance? Ok. You want to touch personal property, cancel opponents or abolish borders/police/military/etc? Russian boat that way.

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