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What motorcycles teach about maintenance

books.worksinprogress.co

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Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#141

Post by silisevic »

intrasight wrote: post #49

>In Pirsig’s book there is never a mention of the make and model of his motorcycle. This past weekend I was on a road trip to South Carolina. On the way, most every motorcycle that I saw was a BMW. I told my girlfriend after seeing the Nth that it can't be a coincidence, and I went and found out there was a BMW motorcycle rally taking place that weekend. Anyway, seeing some old BMWs made me remember the book, and I m…

In TFA there is a photo of Pirsig and his son on their motorcycle taken by Sylvia Sutherland, with this legend: "Robert Pirsig’s Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is a novelized account of a real road trip he took in 1968 with his troubled 11-year-old son Chris. Over the course of a month, they traveled 5,700 miles from Twin Cities, Minnesota, to San Francisco and back. His motorcycle was a 1966 Honda CB77F Super Hawk, Honda’s first sport bike. The model’s speed, power, and reliability made it a standard-setter for modern motorcycles."

Also, this: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/cycle...

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#142

Post by names_are_hard »

taylodl wrote: post #85
moudis wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It discounts what you're liable to run into once you start disassembling things on old bikes, really. Sometimes you discover that a previous owner or mechanic thought red Loctite belonged on the screws holding the four carburetors together[^0], and your afternoon now involves a torch and chasing threads in old aluminum carburetor bodies. Sometimes you find that the bike was last touched in an era before anyone knew w…

I'm a new motorcycle rider riding a Suzuki and I didn't know what a JIS screwdriver was! Thanks to you I do now!

If all that comes off this entire HN post is that you get a good set of JIS screwdrivers, it's all worth it. It'll save you trouble down the line. Don't try to open the brake reservoir [0] screws with a Phillips. Ask me how I know.

[0] You might have a plastic reservoir with a screw-off cap, in which case... you'll use the JIS for something else.

P.S. Congrats on the new bike! Take an advanced riding course, read Keith Code, and buy good gear and you'll have a ton of fun with it.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#143

Post by sgt »

radiorental wrote: post #95
taeric wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, I'm still surprised that motorcycles aren't just as hostile. Even tractors have gotten notorious for how user hostile they are.

They have, at least the high end KTMs and BMWs. You simply can't work on them yourself anymore. Fortunately there's a constant flow of user friendly "low end" bikes coming out of Japan, India and China.

Certainly harder to work on but you can do your own maintenance. I have a BMW R1200GS, and there's really nothing you can't do yourself. Most of it is mechanical and the computerized stuff you can use diagnostics tools like GS911.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#144

Post by Fradow »

smileysteve wrote: post #130
Fradow wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do car maintenance rather than motorcycle maintenance, but same opinion: bicycle maintenance is tedious. So tedious that beside chain greasing and tires pressure, I pay someone rather than DIY. I hate adjusting breaks or gears with a passion. On the other hand, cars (and I assume motorcycle as well) maintenance is enjoyable: there is no fiddling with stuff, you fit it, torque it and it's good.

Until you start customizing; then you're figuring out camber and toe angles; remapping your fuel curve, adjusting road height, preload on anti sway bars, different brake pad compounds.

True. I've not reached that stage, and probably won't, since most of those are illegal to do on road cars where I live.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#145

Post by Fradow »

Swizec wrote: post #104
Fradow wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Backup transportation solution", it can be public transit, or even a bicycle if it's enough to get you where you need to, but yes that's my opinion. Even something as simple as an oil change can go wrong. Drain plug broke and you need a new one? Or you forgot to put a gasket and it leaks and now all your oil is on the floor? Well, now you need a trip to the parts store, or order it and wait until parts get there. In…

> at a third of the pressure specified on the manual, the reservoir ruptured Hey, better this happen while you're wrenching than when you're zooming through the twisties and need to stop

Indeed. In this particular situation it cannot happen since that reservoir is normally not under pressure, but I've had a not properly connected line (my fault) disconnecting while performing an unrelated operation.

Luckily that one was just a quick trip to the parts store to get the right fluid and reconnecting the line properly this time!

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#146

Post by Fradow »

Animats wrote: post #103

One aspect of maintenance is understanding the mindset of the original designer. This is pleasant for very well designed machinery. Here's a long description of a Teletype restoration I did a decade ago.[1] Mostly this is about the mechanical processes, but sometimes I wrote about the thinking behind the design. Teletypes were originally rented, with maintenance included. So they were intended to be reliable and repa…

A lot of things have left me a bit flustered, to the point I assume the main reason it has been done like this is that parts where taken from a parts bin from the manufacturer and cobbled together to work.

There are a few examples on my car like that that are a bit infuriating (and were corrected on later revisions of the model, which I know because a friend has a later revision).

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#147

Post by cwaffles »

taeric wrote: post #120
cwaffles wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, operating a motorcycle requires 3x the effort of a car. In the case of a sport bike, multiply again by 2, and triple if you have a passenger. Along with motorcycles being more weather dependent, I would not travel as many kilometers. Having driven a car for 10 years, then motorcycle exclusively for the past 3, I much prefer a motorcycle over a car.

And I'm right there with you, but with my road bicycle. Even in cars, I prefer my aging 100% manual (even the windows) truck. Which is far more effort than our minivan. We still use the van far more, because family. Which brings it back into the realm of hobby. Note that if you are taking "hobby" as some sort of derogatory claim against it, that is not my intent. My point is pretty strictly on the fact that it is lar…

I agree with both points, fair statement!

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#148

Post by cwaffles »

ben7799 wrote: post #78
taeric wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, I'm still surprised that motorcycles aren't just as hostile. Even tractors have gotten notorious for how user hostile they are.

In terms of your "Live to Ride, Ride to Live" comment I agree with you. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest passionate motorcyclists are dramatically more passionate than car guys. Lots of car guys have their entire identity tied up in their choice of car and bury themselves financially to drive that car and are pretty much obsessed with it.

I think that on average, car drivers are less passionate, as most are using it for utility. On the Enthusiast side, I think the averages are similar, but still lean towards motorcyclists being more passionate, with the main example being the % of motorcyclists having custom exhausts and levers. I'd estimate at least 25% of motorcycles have those features. For cars, I'd estimate 5-10% would have custom exhaust or steering wheels.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#149

Post by red-iron-pine »

taeric wrote: post #72
ben7799 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't mean modern motorcycles weren't more complicated than older motorcycles. It's just nowhere near as severe as cars where the manufacturers are ultra hostile to the owner working on the car and even do their best to make it hard for independent mechanics & shops to work on it. If cars were like motorcycles I doubt we'd have movements for right to repair.

Right, I'm still surprised that motorcycles aren't just as hostile. Even tractors have gotten notorious for how user hostile they are.

> Even tractors have gotten notorious for how user hostile they are

Stock prices have to go up, and that means subscription models and pay-to-fix

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#150

Post by simplyluke »

taeric wrote: post #121
ben7799 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't motorcycle anymore but did for a long time and did both a huge amount of riding and some very serious maintenance jobs. I have kept bicycling thousands of miles a year since. In the past I did a bunch of different types of bicycle racing. Never did motorcycle racing but I did go to quite a few track days. In general with a few exceptions everything on motorcycles is far more competently engineered. Bicycle ma…

I'm curious if they really could just copy something from the motorcycle world? In particular, I would imagine that the constraints on weight and power that can be applied by the user are very very different.

Yeah, I think a number of these comments are significantly disregarding the engineering challenges faced in bicycle manufacturing. I suspect trying to design a There’s a reason many innovations in the bike world have come from aerospace.
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