Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Why doesn't the Tesla vehicle have a 'full power down' state for storage?" I assume this is because of the nature of Li-ion batteries. Even if you aren't pulling any current from the battery, they will still discharge over time, and eventually go through a chemical process rendering them unusable and/or dangerous. Having a "long-term storage" mode for the vehicle would only serve to make it more likely to happen by…
I would like to understand where you get that information. I've had a lot of experience with rechargeable batteries over the years in doing robotics, and a variety of chemical makeups. My experience is that the "self discharge" function is the result of the anions managing to convert by one means or another not related to electron injection at the anode. The mechanisms that enable this are things like electron tunnel…
Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
141–150 of 249 posts
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is almost PR mastery. PR mastery would be saying that the blogger is correct before listing the facts about how insanely long you have to leave the car unplugged for the battery to become inoperable, and detailing what steps Tesla is taking to make this less of an issue (i.e. making it more prominent in their manuals, working on "deeper" sleep, etc.) As it stands, this makes me think that Tesla likes to play wit…
Real PR mastery would be to issue a modification to the warranty to include this condition within X years of owning the vehicle and be done with it. If it really is rare, it will cost them a lot less to cover it than the PR costs of fighting bad press every time it pops up.
Such condition would be tempting to abuse. Warranty expires in 6 months--drive to 0%, wait a month and call dealer.
Instead manufacturer could make it very clear in on webpages, in owner manuals, PR materials etc. the importance of keeping batteries charged. Make it common knowledge. Then they would be morally right to treat bricked batteries same as running with no oil or with flat tires.
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#143Here's one of the problems that I have with this whole thing: My iPod goes dead all the time, so does my phone, so does my laptop, my camera, my remote, my everything. I think that every single battery-powered device I've ever owned has, at some point, gone "dead" (as in it won't power on). NONE of these things have ever been completely incapacitated because of this. I've never had to replace my laptop because I let…
> NONE of these things have ever been completely incapacitated because of this. I've never had to replace my laptop because I let it go flat. Maybe you're fortunate, but I've definitely had to replace laptop batteries because they got bricked. If you leave your battery discharged for a long enough time, you can never charge it again.
Now that you mention it, I've probably seen a couple of 'bricked' laptop batteries. At the time I didn't realize that was an issue inherent in the technology, but looking back that's probably what killed those batteries.
Well at least this whole saga has taught me more about Li-ION batteries. I feel like this information is something that should be more generally known amongst the population, not just for cars but for all the products we use with Li-ION.
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is almost PR mastery. PR mastery would be saying that the blogger is correct before listing the facts about how insanely long you have to leave the car unplugged for the battery to become inoperable, and detailing what steps Tesla is taking to make this less of an issue (i.e. making it more prominent in their manuals, working on "deeper" sleep, etc.) As it stands, this makes me think that Tesla likes to play wit…
Real PR mastery would be to issue a modification to the warranty to include this condition within X years of owning the vehicle and be done with it. If it really is rare, it will cost them a lot less to cover it than the PR costs of fighting bad press every time it pops up.
I disagree. You buy a car that only needs maintenance once a year, but you have to plug it in at least once every few weeks. They are willing to go well above and beyond what most would expect in order to remind you of that. I think that's a pretty good deal.
Responsible owners do not let the battery charge reach zero. The consequences are serious enough that owners with unusual usage patterns that make this difficult will go out of their way to make sure it doesn't happen. There is a strong negative financial incentive for owners to do a simple thing like plugging in the car.
Modifying the warranty means Tesla accepts financial accountability for owners' (in)actions that are beyond Tesla's control. That's a bad deal for Tesla. It could mean financial ruin if there are too many irresponsible owners.
This thing is so blown out of proportion. When I first read the blog article I was thinking it was pretty bad. Once I had some time to think about it I realized there isn't anything unreasonable about this except the price of a new battery, but that's the cost of being an early adopter.
If you let a high end sports car sit in a garage for months with a tank full of gas and then go drive it fast you are going to wreck it. It's going to be expensive to fix. That's if you can even get it to start in the first place. A responsible owner starts the car every couple weeks or has someone else do it while they are out of town. What's the difference in effort between that and plugging in a Tesla? The only difference with the Tesla is the cost of the repair.
I think this is a case of some people being ignorant of their responsibilities as owners and failing to properly maintain their cars.
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#145The comments here seem to fall into two unrelated categories: "Tesla isn't telling customers the whole story" and "What did people expect to happen when they left their car unplugged for months?"
Both are valid points. Why are you arguing? The points don't seem mutually exclusive to me. Tesla has a lot going for it. They make innovative cars, and I would love to own one. That doesn't make the company's PR responses any less defensive and cagey. The response for this particular issue is a big turn off for me. I would definitely prefer that they didn't contradict themselves within the first three paragraphs.
I get it. Owners of Tesla cars need to charge their cars or they will be out $40,000. That makes sense to me. Batteries don't last forever. My Mother however doesn't care how the car works. She just wants it to work. She'll do the maintenance that you ask her to do, but she's not going to know why. So, she won't know why she can't leave the car at the airport for a month.
That's why it's important for Tesla to say, "yes this is an important issue that is part of maintaining your car." Not, "A single blogger is spreading a rumor about electric vehicles becoming inoperable." If my Mother read that last sentence, she might say to herself, "oh, I guess that blogger was just lying," and move on without reading the whole article, now assuming that it's not possible to "brick" her car.
I also lay some blame at Michael Degusta's feet. I don't think that it was appropriate for him to title his article "'It’s A Brick' – Tesla Motors’ Devastating Design Problem." I don't see this as a design problem. It works. The potential for bricking your car is just something you'll have to watch out for, just like not changing your oil is something you need to watch out for.
I think that Tesla was just reacting against the accusation that they had a design flaw. As long as they make sure that all of their customers know of the issue, it's not a design flaw. At that point it's maintenance. That's where I think that Tesla failed today. They skimped on their responsibility of informing the customer of important facts, so that they could come out smelling like roses.
P.S. Incidentally, if I were to take a trip to my mountain home in Italy for half a year, roughly how much would I expect to pay in electricity to keep my Tesla vehicle charged? Does it draw a constant amount of power for the entire time that I'm away?
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#146tl;dr - A Tesla car can in fact be bricked.
The blogger should write a follow-up article: "Tesla admits that cars can be bricked. They are just a little harder to brick than assumed."
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#147Wow. Great example of PR spin. It totally confirms the bricking claims by refusing to outright deny them. Instead it just repeats that you are supposed to recharge it and not let the batteries deplete, which is something everyone already acknowledges is true and is not a point of contention.
There is also a jab at a "single blogger" bringing the issue up, as if he is some rogue on a vendetta or looking for attention. But then not denying his claims makes this look like an insidious corporate attack on a journalist who actually brought to the public's attention a serious flaw with a product. Very similar to how GM's attacks on Ralph Nader back in the 1970s started. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsafe_at_Any_Speed#Industry_re...
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#148I read this as, "yup, you'll brick your car if you don't keep it plugged in."
On the other hand, I manage to keep my cell phone charged at all times, so I can imagine that I'd be able to keep my car charged at all times. But I ride a bike, so this doesn't really affect me.
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#149Here's one of the problems that I have with this whole thing: My iPod goes dead all the time, so does my phone, so does my laptop, my camera, my remote, my everything. I think that every single battery-powered device I've ever owned has, at some point, gone "dead" (as in it won't power on). NONE of these things have ever been completely incapacitated because of this. I've never had to replace my laptop because I let…
I'm not going to point out how Tesla car batteries have to follow the laws of physics. Other people did that already. Tesla cars aren't mass market products (yet). They're for early adopters who can afford what is essentially a $100.000+ toy. If you then don't read the manual and leave the car on a parking lot for months , then yes, you can ruin the battery. So let's compare it to other early adopter technology. It t…
Forget to turn off the stove before you leave for holiday? Your house might burn down.
This is the best example I've read so far. If you own expensive stuff, you have to be careful. That's life. If you're not careful, don't buy a $100,000 electric car. Buy a $750 used pickup truck or something. That way, if you break it, you'll be able to afford the replacement.
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#150The comments here seem to fall into two unrelated categories: "Tesla isn't telling customers the whole story" and "What did people expect to happen when they left their car unplugged for months?" Both are valid points. Why are you arguing? The points don't seem mutually exclusive to me. Tesla has a lot going for it. They make innovative cars, and I would love to own one. That doesn't make the company's PR responses a…
If you can afford a $100,000 car, you are not going to leave it parked at the airport for a month. Tesla does not make cars for people that need a utility vehicle, they make toys for rich people. Some day, this technology will be mass market and the batteries will be more forgiving. Today is not that day.