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Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

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Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#141

Post by arein3 »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #140
arein3 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't AMD drivers open source for linux?

No. Not the fully featured ones. Also, the way they've dragged their feet on this for decades, and still do. Doesn't inspire confidence.

When I will buy the next laptop of videocard, I'll have a look at intel gpus and linux driver situation.

On my laptop I have disabled the NVidia GPU on linux because of the drivers, and use the AMD integrated GPU. Hope Intel will prioritise open source GPU drivers in the future, if they will do that sincerely it will win goodwill from me and hopefully from the community as well.

Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#142

Post by bee_rider »

icelancer wrote: post #90
genmud wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming they deliver on a timetable they say they will, which intel has had a well established track record of not doing. With intel, over the last 5-10 years I don't believe anything they say until there are chips in peoples hands at a volume that is meaningful.

Here's to hoping a real engineer (Gelsinger) at the helm will make the difference.

It is hard to nail down exactly when things started going poorly for Intel, but they definitely weren’t going well under Krzanich (engineering background) and I have trouble blaming Swan given the dysfunctional company he inherited. If Gelsinger pulls it all together, IMO Swam deserves some credit for laying a good foundation.

Intel has put out some interesting chips in the last couple years. Anyway, their dominant years set a pretty high bar, I don’t think we’ll see that again (I guess the aliens decided to start spreading around the technology they send).

Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#143

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

arein3 wrote: post #141
mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Not the fully featured ones. Also, the way they've dragged their feet on this for decades, and still do. Doesn't inspire confidence.

When I will buy the next laptop of videocard, I'll have a look at intel gpus and linux driver situation. On my laptop I have disabled the NVidia GPU on linux because of the drivers, and use the AMD integrated GPU. Hope Intel will prioritise open source GPU drivers in the future, if they will do that sincerely it will win goodwill from me and hopefully from the community as well.

The open source ones should be fine for a laptop APU. Certainly alot better than whatever the hell Nvidia think they're doing...

But yeah, for fancier features like OpenCL, Vulkan, raytracing, you'd have to use amdgpu "pro" drivers which includes many proprietary parts.

Intel are definitely committed to providing open source Linux drivers for the gpus, at least based on past behaviour. They've had open source drivers for the iGPUs pretty much since the beginning(2010), IIRC.

My last two desktops actually didn't have dGPUs at all because I couldn't be bothered, and I'm not much of a gamer. But now GPUs are too important for many other things, so I'm very happy that Intel got into it. And they didn't disappoint with drivers again really. Though it did take some time to get really sorted, mostly because they had a lot of driver tech debt to sort out on all platforms. So drivers have been shifty all around, but now they're quite stable.

Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#145

Post by bee_rider »

robertlagrant wrote: post #120
brucethemoose2 wrote: post #2

Heh, I remember when this was the norm: Samsung, TSMC, and GloFo waiting for Intel to work out the kinks and tooling before implementing it themselves.

(I don't understand why sibling comment was downvoted so much with no comment.)

I think comments on this site start greying out with just 1-2 downvotes, and we can’t see each other’s scores, right? So it is possible that just a couple people didn’t like it for random/obscure reasons.

It appears to be positive now, or at least it isn’t greyed out anymore. I wouldn’t wonder too much about these temporarily downvotes comments, they usually bounce back pretty quick if they are any good.

Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#146

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #53
scrlk wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/sand-won-t-save-yo... All posts under the "Things I Won't Work With" series: https://www.science.org/topic/blog-category/things-i-wont-wo...

Thanks! I was on my phone, and realized I hadn’t bookmarked it. I like all the stuff he did in that series, so the second link is great!

And I enjoyed this one, almost as much as the OP: https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/things-i-won-t-wor...

This is my favorite quote:

> And that's at room temperature. At seven hundred freaking degrees, fluorine starts to dissociate into monoatomic radicals, thereby losing its gentle and forgiving nature.

Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#147

Post by bee_rider »

zeusk wrote: post #129
paulmd wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more than process problems though, and really more than BK too. Intel was the proverbial termite-riddled house by the 2010s on multiple levels. BK was COO from 2012 and CEO from 2013, and intel was already starting to spin its wheels by that point on stuff like modems and atom and wireless and lacked a proper strategic direction. It's hard to know how much internal jank was in the architectures back then but it…

> Alder Lake has its AVX-512 disabled Alder lake has AVX-512 disabled because 512 bit data paths on atom cores don't make sense and Microsoft couldn't execute on a IHV specific scheduling change so quickly. AVX2+ and later Windows scheduler changes will take care of this. Just like P-states, Intel now has hardware scheduling hints for the OS as well. > Meteor Lake is not happening on desktop Because arrow lake is tra…

AVX-512 on atom is cool, KNL was a good idea.

I get that they aren’t making these chips for me, but Alder lake with AVX-512 would have been so cool, it would be like having a Phi in the same package as your main cores.

I’m not sure what exactly killed the Phi, but not having to talk through PCIe might have given them a chance to keep up with the inevitable march of NVIDIA Tesla bandwidth improvements.

Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#148

Post by gumby »

metadat wrote: post #67
rektide wrote: post #13

I thought the Anandtech coverage did a bit better job filling in both background & details. https://www.anandtech.com/show/18894/intel-details-powervia-...

Does Backside Power Delivery mean the silicon area of the chip will be placed upside down on the motherboard to ensure efficient heat dissipation? (Since the power source will be on the opposite side compared to current day silicon) P.s. in case you never heard of BPD technology, https://semiengineering.com/challenges-in-backside-power-del... is also informative (thanks @rektide for the Anand link!) Edit: Relevant qu…

> for PC enthusiasts accustomed to transistors at the top of their chip, this is going to be a significant change.

Seriously? The chip is inside a carrier but enthusiasts care which side the transistors are on? Absurd.

Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#149

Post by [deleted] »

fennecfoxy wrote: post #119
augustl wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if I even trust Intel/Windows at this point. The m1 macs are just so much snappier in absolutely every way imaginable than my old 11th gen Dell. My old PC would some times take minutes (!) to fully wake up from sleep, the battery drained in a couple of hours when coding, and it was sluggish the whole time compared to plugged in performance. I plan to see if I can borrow someone's 13th gen PC and use it f…

"My old PC" Well of course a newer laptop of going to be "snappier" lmao. "My new car is faster and more fuel efficient than my old car"

[deleted]

Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#150

Post by evilduck »

fennecfoxy wrote: post #119
augustl wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if I even trust Intel/Windows at this point. The m1 macs are just so much snappier in absolutely every way imaginable than my old 11th gen Dell. My old PC would some times take minutes (!) to fully wake up from sleep, the battery drained in a couple of hours when coding, and it was sluggish the whole time compared to plugged in performance. I plan to see if I can borrow someone's 13th gen PC and use it f…

"My old PC" Well of course a newer laptop of going to be "snappier" lmao. "My new car is faster and more fuel efficient than my old car"

11th gen Intel isn't some ancient PC, it released in 2021, before the M1 that user compared it to. Don't be disingenuous.
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