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Debian 12 “Bookworm”

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Re: Debian 12 “Bookworm”

#141

Post by still_grokking »

pessimizer wrote: post #119
Kwpolska wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were you trying out Sid, or stable/testing? Stable tends to contain ancient software, but sid should be recent enough.

I suspect that a lot of people who are saying that Debian is behind don't understand Debian. for them: Whatever you download is going to be "Debian Stable." Debian Stable is as fresh and up-to-date as it's ever going to be at this moment, but it will not change significantly in the future, because its goal is stability. You throw it on something you want to run for years and not crash. If you don't mind your system c…

Just to correct the most glaring mistakes:

Ubuntu is based on Sid (Debian Unstable).

You can download Debian installers for Testing.

Usually nothing on Testing crashes, as such severe bugs are considered blockers to move a package form Unstable to Testing. (Of course once in a few years something slips through the testing period in Unstable. But it's than usually repaired within a few hours.)

People are running Sid. (Even I personally wouldn't recommend it.)

But one point of the parent I strongly support:

Debian's web page is a mess. I'm using this system for decades but still don't find anything on the Debian page without the help of some search engine. Also, when I need Linux related documentation I go to the Arch Wiki (and sometimes to the Gentoo docs), even as a Debian user. OTOH, you only seldom need docu, because Debian "just works" for the most part.

Re: Debian 12 “Bookworm”

#142

Post by paines »

noisy_boy wrote: post #81
unpopularopp wrote: post #24

A bit offtopic... are there any distros besides PoPOS that comes with the proprietary Nvidia drivers preinstalled? I tried to use (live image) Debian on an RTX 4070 PC and nothing worked just black screen after GRUB. PoPOS works out of the box but honestly I'd prefer something more simple as Debian.

I have been thinking of switching to Debian from Pop!_OS and have a Thinkpad X1 Extreme Gen 2 with Nvidia GeForce GTX 1650 - if graphics drivers are an issue, then my wish is dead in water.

Why preinstalled? They are not even preinstalled on PoPOS. If you choose nvidia via powermanagement and they aren't installed, only then they will be downloaded and installed..... If you think of the hazzle because of offloading (intel by default and nvidia by demand) just purge bumblebee(at least that was the issue before boowkworm) and you have mostly the same experience.

Re: Debian 12 “Bookworm”

#143

Post by dima55 »

denysonique wrote: post #115

I see this old-package argument over and over again and I think it is inaccurate, considering that an estimated 95% of Ubuntu users use the LTS version, the below table demonstrates that Debian 12 (stable) packages are newer than those of of Ubuntu 22.04. Both Debian 12 and Ubuntu 22.04 are LTS versions with 5 years of support. Ubuntu 22.04 Kernel 5.19 (new installs only, existing installs 5.15) systemd 249 KDE Plasm…

This is true by definition. Ubuntu releases are forked from Debian at the time of their release, so Ubuntu 22.04 is where Debian was in April 2022.

Re: Debian 12 “Bookworm”

#144

Post by kijin »

denysonique wrote: post #115

I see this old-package argument over and over again and I think it is inaccurate, considering that an estimated 95% of Ubuntu users use the LTS version, the below table demonstrates that Debian 12 (stable) packages are newer than those of of Ubuntu 22.04. Both Debian 12 and Ubuntu 22.04 are LTS versions with 5 years of support. Ubuntu 22.04 Kernel 5.19 (new installs only, existing installs 5.15) systemd 249 KDE Plasm…

Debian Stable and Ubuntu LTS tend to alternate with respect to who has newer packages, because Debian ships on odd years and Ubuntu LTS on even years.

For most purposes, though, I find that I increasingly don't care about 1 or 2 years of difference in the base OS. Most of the toolchain is stable and well established. There are only a small handful of things I want to pin to a specific version (like node.js or Python), but these can usually be installed side by side with default packages. If not, I can always install it in a container. :)

Re: Debian 12 “Bookworm”

#145

Post by still_grokking »

gwhl wrote: post #137
still_grokking wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half the Linux distris? I've once counted on Distrowatch. When you go by number of distris there it's more like 80% are Debian based. If you go also by how much those distris are used it's even like 9x% of the stuff running out there is Debian based. There are almost no independent distris. You have Arch, you have SUSE, you have RedHat and a few clones, you have Gentoo. But more or less everything else is Debian base…

And Slackware!

There are of course some niche distris that aren't based on the "big ones".

But I'm not sure Slackware is still at this point relevant enough to be named in a row with the others I've mentioned.

Of course the sampling was subjective, and I didn't intended to marginalize any not mentioned distris. I just thought the others are too niche to be included in such kind of pick.

Re: Debian 12 “Bookworm”

#147

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

jacooper wrote: post #114
krylon wrote: post #44

One thing I really appreciate about Debian is that when a new stable release comes around, I can just upgrade and be reasonably sure nothing bad will happen. It's not exciting, but a fair amount of the time, this is what people expect from their operating system. Support my hardware, give me the software I need, and stay out of my way otherwise. And that is what Debian does very well.

Its baffling that RHEL-based distros still don't support in place upgrades.

Strange; I would have assumed that `dnf system-upgrade` would have made it from Fedora to RHEL by now.

Actually searching turns up https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterp... , which... appears to use a totally different tool? I don't really know what's going on there, but it does looks like they have some sort of support for in-place upgrades now.

Re: Debian 12 “Bookworm”

#149

Post by tuukkah »

guerrilla wrote: post #136
tuukkah wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu and its derivatives are included.

Is Ubuntu still Debian based? What's the criterion for that anyway? Just using debs?

I wouldn't call Ubuntu a flavor of Debian as they have so big differences, but ultimately it's still mostly Debian. You can see a numerical comparison of packages here: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/mdt/all.html

Re: Debian 12 “Bookworm”

#150

Post by vbezhenar »

sylware wrote: post #33

Finally with init system alternatives or do they still shove systemd down our throat (if so I'll stick to devuan gnu/linux instead)?

That's one of the reasons I don't like Debian. All this old cruft for compatibility with stuff nobody should be using. Just embrace systemd, jesus.
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