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Jared Diamond: A Reply to His Critics

blog.daviskedrosky.com

141–150 of 168 posts

Re: Jared Diamond: A Reply to His Critics

#141
Maybe I misread, but this author creates some pretty huge straw man arguments here and in so doing over simplifies what is, I think (as a lapsed but trained historian),pretty valid critique.

While some of the pop culture criticism of Diamond could be assigned to so-called cancel culture or “racism,” that characterization really does not summarize much of the academic critique of Diamond.

The best critique I’ve read and certainly the most fun is the Davids Wengrow and Graeber’s big tome “Dawn of Everything.”

Part of critique is simply Diamond making some broad strokes and it’s always the nature of synthesis that they decay quickly as new research comes available.

I’ll link to their more broad editorial, but the David’s’ biggest critique of Diamond and other neo-Raussians is that much of the foundation of those assertions are based on broad and bad preconceptions about so-called pre-history from the Enlightment. Once stated more plainly, very few of us in 2023 or even 20-40 years earlier, would agree with anything stated about other cultures in the Enlightment. And yet somehow, entire world histories - Diamond’s included - never question these basic foundational assumptions. This is a mistake that is increasingly disputed by not only pre-existing 20th century anthropology, but most certainly by 21st century anthropology included LiDAR and satellite imaging.

This author addresses some of that critique but to frame it as some kind of racist critique or cancel culture is frankly absurd. I’m surprised because as a historian surely Kedrosky has read the same books and articles I have, and certainly must know how historiography works - likely better than I do! - and yet this framing is so disengenious it’s a bit surprising.

In any case I recommend Dawn of Everything. It’s not a retort to Diamond/neo-Raussian as it is a kind of “huh!” with a lot of fun framing of preexisting research - some of which Diamond himself pulls from.

An op-Ed to whet the appetite: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/04/opinion/graeber-wengrow-d...

Re: Jared Diamond: A Reply to His Critics

#142

> Diamond absolves Europeans of blame for the crimes of imperialism through his geographical determinism, since the conquerors couldn’t help but seize the helpless Americas. Running through the article is the notion that somehow Europeans were uniquely interested in brutal empire building. I can only infer that such notions stem from never having read history books about other cultures. For example, "Empire of the Su…

I see nothing in his book that claims they were uniquely *interested* in brutal empire building. Rather, they were in a situation to be uniquely *successful* at brutal empire building. Everybody behaved badly, it's just the Europeans were in a position to gain more from said bad behavior.

Re: Jared Diamond: A Reply to His Critics

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Diamond's greatest fault as a researcher is his reliance on reductivism. Anyone can cherry-pick history to support "5 simple rules that explain X" if the rules are even reasonably sane. It may be satisfying and entertaining to read, but human history is much more complex than just a few rules.

I keep seeing this robot-like criticism of Diamond as "over-simplistic" or "hyperreductionist". But it's just a model? The map is not the territory, and Diamond has never claimed to explain all human development. His thesis is merely that geography and environment contribute to biological and cultural dominance to a disproportionate degree compared to other factors. I don't see how this is controversial.

I think it is because he's showing the colonial powers weren't especially evil, just more successful at being evil.

Re: Jared Diamond: A Reply to His Critics

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the irony is that I've seen Guns, Germs, and Steel get trashed by people on the right for downplaying the idea that Western culture was/is special and the key to success/wealth/innovation and attacking Diamond for saying it was only due to geography and other random factors rather than Western culture itself Universities and academics have shifted so far left that they are increasingly eating their own, the entire po…

Yep. It said Europe's balkanized geography (islands, peninsulas) begat literal balkanization, which begat competition, which begat innovation, which begat exploration and technology which dominated the world despite all other European failings. Meanwhile, Asia's geography lent itself to unifying monopolization, which begat immense totalitarian states which were more complacent. Both geographies fostered dense cities…

And note that totalitarian states tend to become anti-science because it might upset their applecart. China was the dominant power, it didn't need innovation so why take the risk?

Re: Jared Diamond: A Reply to His Critics

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wheels are also more advanced than they might appear to us nowadays. They are kind of a quantum leap because only a good wheel is useful, and a good wheel has multiple components that have to be fashioned and integrated in just the right way. Even if the idea of a wheelbarrow exists, it might not seem worth the investment when there isn't an established wheel industry and the wheel will need lots of tinkering and adj…

Wheels sturdy enough to carry light loads are easier to fabricate than wheels sturdy enough to carry heavy loads. Similarly low-speed wheels are easier to create than wheels suitable for a chariot pulled by a galloping horse. So the thousands of years gap between heavy carts and chariots vs wheelbarrows, isn't something you can explain by citing insufficient technology or unsuitable environmental conditions. I think…

For one horse drawn wagons are thousands of years old, there's Sumerian depictions of them. So the idea that wheeled horse-drawn vehicles took thousands of years to invent after the chariot is just wrong.

The key to heavy horse drawn carts was the horse collar. A horse collar fits over the shoulders of a horse allowing it to push a load with its back legs rather than pull a load with essentially just its front legs.

Before the horse collar (invented about the 5th century CE) horses were harnessed either with a yoke or breast strap. Because of how these fit on a horse they could only use about half their available power at best and breast straps could impact their windpipe. For heavy loads oxen were used since you'd need twice as many horses for the same load.

Horses were far superior to oxen for many types of work once the horse collar was widely available because they're faster than oxen and have better endurance. With a horse collar they could pull the same load as an equivalent number of oxen but faster and longer durations. It not only made heavy horse drawn vehicles practical but increased the cost effectiveness of those vehicles since they could have longer duty cycles.

Animal drawn vehicles involve much more than just wheels. Their use is very much about the technology available and suitability for the environment.

Re: Jared Diamond: A Reply to His Critics

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wheels are also more advanced than they might appear to us nowadays. They are kind of a quantum leap because only a good wheel is useful, and a good wheel has multiple components that have to be fashioned and integrated in just the right way. Even if the idea of a wheelbarrow exists, it might not seem worth the investment when there isn't an established wheel industry and the wheel will need lots of tinkering and adj…

Wheels sturdy enough to carry light loads are easier to fabricate than wheels sturdy enough to carry heavy loads. Similarly low-speed wheels are easier to create than wheels suitable for a chariot pulled by a galloping horse. So the thousands of years gap between heavy carts and chariots vs wheelbarrows, isn't something you can explain by citing insufficient technology or unsuitable environmental conditions. I think…

I think it comes down to basic evolutionary principles--it's much harder to cross a big gap than a succession of small gaps.

History shows us the wheelbarrow is not obvious (things which are obvious get done quickly), the chariot provides an intermediate step and thus makes crossing the gap far easier.

Re: Jared Diamond: A Reply to His Critics

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you active in any of tho relevant fields? If not, then why do you think you are better qualified to judge the academic quality of his work than actual academics with the proper background?

> better qualified to judge the academic quality of his work than actual academics with the proper background that argument only holds up if the group with the "proper background" is NOT a giant echo chamber where non-conformity is ruthlessly punished.

Can you specify which fields you have in mind and why you think so, or are you speaking in hypotheticals just for the sake of appearing to make a counterpoint?

Re: Jared Diamond: A Reply to His Critics

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> better qualified to judge the academic quality of his work than actual academics with the proper background that argument only holds up if the group with the "proper background" is NOT a giant echo chamber where non-conformity is ruthlessly punished.

Can you specify which fields you have in mind and why you think so, or are you speaking in hypotheticals just for the sake of appearing to make a counterpoint?

I guess you think this is a witty thing to say.

we're already talking about a specific field.

Re: Jared Diamond: A Reply to His Critics

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, free markets are not dependent on geography. Any country/civilization can adopt them any time they want to.

And the point of the book is that Balkanized geography makes countries more likely to want to adopt free markets whereas big continents will be more likely to adopt authoritarian state control.

Sounds like nonsense - the US straddles an entire continent. At the opposite geographical extreme we have Taiwan and Japan, both highly successful free markets.

Re: Jared Diamond: A Reply to His Critics

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Founders of the United States did not invent the rights you refer to. You're right, those rights are inalienable characteristics of humans. However, the US was the first to codify them into the founding document of a nation. The states in the North had all ended slavery by 1804. Prosperity followed.

> The states in the North had all ended slavery by 1804. Prosperity followed. And so did the Industrial Revolution. What's the causal mechanism that puts codifying the rights you mention, and quest for happiness, before prosperity? With industrialization, the possible mechanism is much more clear for it being the source of both prosperity and the ability for US to keep those rights codified over longer periods of tim…

Industrialization only happened in free societies that recognized those rights.

Yes, I know about the forced industrialization in the USSR, but that failed to really deliver much to the civilians. It was mostly focused on military production. The US industrialization was so far ahead it provided not only the highest standard of living in the world, but enabled the US to fight simultaneous wars in both hemispheres, while supplying its allies (including the Soviet Union) with vast quantities of industrial products.

> is much more clear

Again, the industrialization of America happened after the rights were guaranteed, and only in the parts of America that were free.

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