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‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

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Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#141

Post by wnevets »

the_doctah wrote: post #138
wnevets wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only is "diversity" not new for Marvel but X-23 was created prior to the Disney purchase.

One data point does not make a trend. Post-Disney is when the trend started. Also a downward trend... of sales.

> One data point does not make a trend.

How many have to exist before it can be considered "progressivism"/"diversity" then? Also can you provide those examples that occurred post-Disney? As a huge marvel fan it should be easy for you do. As someone who isn't a huge marvel fan I can think of several off the top of my head that occurred pre-Disney.

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#142

Post by cruxluna »

Timon3 wrote: post #112
norwalkbear wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so. Gay Marriage bills didn't even pass in California, or 29 other states. The supreme court overturned the will of Americans (btw I'm French). It's clear American elites are far far more liberal progressive than the American people themselves. The country that had Nixon win in a landslide, brought Trump too.

Luckily that's very easy to disprove, since we have statistics about the amount of Americans supporting e.g. same-sex marriage: in November 2022, 61% of Americans saw it as a net positive. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/11/15/about-six...

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Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#143

Post by cruxluna »

garbagecoder wrote: post #119
norwalkbear wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making it less woke would have made it successful with one simple trick . Let Luke be a positive male hero.

I agree that making Luke turn out better would have been one of many keys to its improvement, but I don't think that was done to be woke. If anything it was more regurgitation. They felt like he needed a hermit phase like Obi Wan. Also, there were supposed to be positive male heroes in it, right? Finn, even Kylo Ren in the end, and the guy whose name I forget that's the pilot. Having one of the key characters be a fe…

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Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#144

Post by cruxluna »

Kye wrote: post #120
rado wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abandoned it after 2 episodes, because everyone was grumpy, sad and serious all the time. Ridiculous.

Then you missed some incredible television. Everyone is grumpy for a damn good reason, and they do something about it. It's a story of ordinary people pushed to the limit fighting back against an evil that seems impossible to reason about, much less fight.

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Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#145

Post by cruxluna »

wnevets wrote: post #10

The movies have been quite profitable even after Hollywood accounting. Without even talking about licensing and merchandising, how much more money were the movies supposed to make?

Considered they paid 4 billion for the franchise alone, I think they wanted more.

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#146

Post by cruxluna »

taylodl wrote: post #93
the_doctah wrote: post #22

Does anyone actually think the problem stops at LucasFilm? It's Disney . They're ruining Marvel properties as well. They care more about pushing progressive ideologies than making a return on investment. How many bad movies and TV shows are they going to push out and then blame bigots when their propaganda fails to entertain? And then they can't even practice what they preach, removing black actors from posters to pl…

> They care more about pushing progressive ideologies than making a return on investment. Stop it. Just stop it. You know that's not true. All they care about is the money. Ever wonder why everything in entertainment is as bad as it is? Because all they care about is money, not quality. That's part of what makes Star Wars movies , and not films.

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Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#147

Post by D13Fd »

pwdisswordfishc wrote: post #117
D13Fd wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is interesting to me because it's so at odds with how I took in the new trilogy. I thought only Johnson showed any vision at all, and I also thought his sense of small scale combat choreography was way better, e.g. the scene where Adam Driver and Rey fight those guys in the red suits. > JJ's movies were so derivative of the original trilogy I sometimes wondered if he was messing with us, e.g. the scenewhere a…

> I liked Abrams' first one best. It had some issues but it at least nailed the epic Star Wars tone and feel, No wonder, given that it was a glorified remake of A New Hope. The sort of film for which the term "remaquel" was created.

That’s fair, but I also don’t mind much. It was a solid attempt to return the franchise to its roots, even if the other movies mostly squandered that.

I agree though, I could have done without Deathstar III.

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#148

Post by the_doctah »

wnevets wrote: post #141
the_doctah wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One data point does not make a trend. Post-Disney is when the trend started. Also a downward trend... of sales.

> One data point does not make a trend. How many have to exist before it can be considered "progressivism"/"diversity" then? Also can you provide those examples that occurred post-Disney? As a huge marvel fan it should be easy for you do. As someone who isn't a huge marvel fan I can think of several off the top of my head that occurred pre-Disney.

    Miles Morales (Spider-Man), original character: Peter Parker/Spider-Man, first appearance: 2011
    Jane Foster (Thor), original character: Thor Odinson, first appearance: 2014
    Riri Williams (Ironheart), original character: Tony Stark/Iron Man, first appearance: 2016
    Laura Kinney (X-23), original character: Logan/Wolverine, first appearance: 2004
    Sam Wilson (Captain America), original character: Steve Rogers/Captain America, first appearance: 2014
    Carol Danvers (Captain Marvel), original character: Mar-Vell/Captain Marvel, first appearance: 2012
    Monica Rambeau (Captain Marvel), original character: Mar-Vell/Captain Marvel, first appearance: 1982
    America Chavez (Miss America), original character: Joey Chapman/Miss America, first appearance: 2011
    Kamala Khan (Ms. Marvel), original character: Carol Danvers/Ms. Marvel, first appearance: 2013
    Kate Bishop (Hawkeye), original character: Clint Barton/Hawkeye, first appearance: 2005
    Gwen Stacy (Spider-Woman, aka Spider-Gwen), original character: Peter Parker/Spider-Man, first appearance: 2014

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#149

Post by wnevets »

the_doctah wrote: post #148
wnevets wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One data point does not make a trend. How many have to exist before it can be considered "progressivism"/"diversity" then? Also can you provide those examples that occurred post-Disney? As a huge marvel fan it should be easy for you do. As someone who isn't a huge marvel fan I can think of several off the top of my head that occurred pre-Disney.

Miles Morales (Spider-Man), original character: Peter Parker/Spider-Man, first appearance: 2011 Jane Foster (Thor), original character: Thor Odinson, first appearance: 2014 Riri Williams (Ironheart), original character: Tony Stark/Iron Man, first appearance: 2016 Laura Kinney (X-23), original character: Logan/Wolverine, first appearance: 2004 Sam Wilson (Captain America), original character: Steve Rogers/Captain Amer…

> Miles Morales (Spider-Man), original character: Peter Parker/Spider-Man, first appearance: 2011

> Jane Foster (Thor), original character: Thor Odinson, first appearance: 2014

> Riri Williams (Ironheart), original character: Tony Stark/Iron Man, first appearance: 2016

> Laura Kinney (X-23), original character: Logan/Wolverine, first appearance: 2004

> Sam Wilson (Captain America), original character: Steve Rogers/Captain America, first appearance: 2014

> Carol Danvers (Captain Marvel), original character: Mar-Vell/Captain Marvel, first appearance: 2012

> Monica Rambeau (Captain Marvel), original character: Mar-Vell/Captain Marvel, first appearance: 1982

> America Chavez (Miss America), original character: Joey Chapman/Miss America, first appearance: 2011

> Kamala Khan (Ms. Marvel), original character: Carol Danvers/Ms. Marvel, first appearance: 2013

> Kate Bishop (Hawkeye), original character: Clint Barton/Hawkeye, first appearance: 2005

> Gwen Stacy (Spider-Woman, aka Spider-Gwen), original character: Peter Parker/Spider-Man, first appearance: 2014

Disney purchased Marvel in 2009(let's be honest 2010 is closer to the real year), only 7 of the 10 you listed occurred under Disney's watch. Big marvel fan indeed. Since you listed 7 times a race and/or a gender was swapped (I won't bother differentiating between swaps vs additions, e.g calling Ghost Spider a swap is a massive stretch.) under Disney as proof of "pushing progressive ideologies" I must assumed that is your threshold for something to be considered a trend. Here are 4 (plus the 3 your listed) times a race and/or a gender swap occurred under the previous Marvel owner's watch.

Michael Clarke Duncan as King Pin

Nick Fury (Ultimate Marvel Team-Up)

Lady Bullseye

Miss Sinister

Its almost as if Marvel did this sort of thing before Disney was involved, interesting.

Re: ‘The Force has left Lucasfilm’: how Disney can salvage its $4B investment

#150

Post by archagon »

stuckinhell wrote: post #47
fumar wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Andor was good. It didn't need Star Was as its universe, but it is perhaps the best Star Wars anything in the last two decades.

Was it ? My husband was a huge Star Wars fan, and didn't say anything about it. I might get it for him.

I loved it — thought it was some of the best sci-fi TV in the last decade. And I really dislike almost every bit of Star Wars media post original trilogy.
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