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CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

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Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#141

Post by _kbh_ »

oneshtein wrote: post #132
dukeofdoom wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably because it would not be deployed on them. Or they would have received assurances of a treatment/antidote being provided. Top $ paid to officials, military aid grants to the country, US security assurances. The research could be done by outside companies, just used Ukraine as a black site to get around existing international laws.

If biological weapon would not be deployed, then why Ukraine need it at all? There is no other hostile country populated by Slavs AND separated by ocean from Ukraine, to be a target for such weapon. Can you give us a logical reason why Ukraine needs a weapon for mass-suicide? Other nations may want a such weapon, but why Ukraine may want it to such extent to participate in development of such suicidal weapon?

> Can you give us a logical reason why Ukraine needs a weapon for mass-suicide?

Because it's part of Russias propaganda and disinformation campaign against Ukraine, which has heated up recently a head of the counter offensive because they know they are losing in that space.

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#142

Post by storkhm »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #87
orangepurple wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is the most likely scenario at this point. Not sure why you're being downvoted.

We don't know what happened. No one would should say they "believe" what happened. It is not a matter of belief.

Auto downvoting things like this though at this stage is just absolutely pathetic.

Smart, educated people are the most susceptible to influence campaigns so it should not be shocking.

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#143

Post by kornhole »

throwaway2990 wrote: post #124
kornhole wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this type of research was banned in the US. Fauci was the highest paid federal employee for a reason. Labs were setup in Ukraine and other parts of the world with funding coming through NIH.

Labs exist everywhere in the world. Stop listening to conspiracy theories that paint them as the sole purpose of making bio weapons. The conspiracy theorists are here to downvote lol.

These are facts and not theory. Which of these statements do you think is untrue?

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#144

Post by rvba »

GartzenDeHaes wrote: post #57
rvba wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GB is sarin. What is that GB-2? Cannot find much information about anything like that via google.

https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/831901-overview "Known binary agents include the following: GB binary (sarin, GB2): DF is located in 1 canister, while OPA is in a second canister. The isopropyl amine binds to the hydrogen fluoride generated during the chemical reaction. After deployment of the weapon, the 2 canisters rupture and the chemical mixture produces GB."

Binary of sarin is latest they got? Doesnt sound very "new".

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#145

Post by phpisthebest »

anigbrowl wrote: post #59
phpisthebest wrote: post #32

You can not have "Government by the people, for the people" when you allow some people to keep secrets from other people under the guise of "national security" Self governance is incompatible with states secrets, and only leads to abuse, corruption, and tyranny. History is full of known abuses, and for every known abuse there is the potential for LOTS of unknown abuse. One can say "well congress will hold them accoun…

Some level of secrecy for purely operational matters is natural. You don't want to give out the keys to your secure communications system or publish your military dispositions in real time. On the other hand, the existence of programs like this cannot and should not be granted a veil of secrecy. It's a sad irony that the US presents itself as the champion of a rules-based international order, human rights etc., while…

I can understand that limited position, however then we get into the proper role, size, and make up of government.

The foundation of the US was there was not to be a standing army, in fact they made it unconditional. Only allowing for a defensive navy.

Of course likely most things in the constitution it was quickly ignored and/or "interpreted" to mean something else allowing for massive expanding on both power and size of the federal government

This expansion causes pressure to keep more and more things secret for "operational matters" then before long everything is "operational matters" and need to be secret.

One of the primary reasons the CIA gives for not wanting most things declassified it because it would give away "current capabilities, or operational programs" thus this CIA is already abusing this classification (operational matters ) to keep lots of historical records classified.

>>while refusing to submit itself to the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court or sign any treaty that might be even slightly disadvantageous.

Nor Should they and any government official that did that should be tried and convicted of Treason. The US Constitution is the final say for our government, not an international court. I reject globalism of that type.

Free Trade with all nations, entangling alliances with none, including entangling our legal systems

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#146

Post by phpisthebest »

jancsika wrote: post #68
phpisthebest wrote: post #32

You can not have "Government by the people, for the people" when you allow some people to keep secrets from other people under the guise of "national security" Self governance is incompatible with states secrets, and only leads to abuse, corruption, and tyranny. History is full of known abuses, and for every known abuse there is the potential for LOTS of unknown abuse. One can say "well congress will hold them accoun…

> the CIA, any other agency with the power to "classify" things, is a direct and ever present threat to not only liberty but the underpinning of democracy everyone claims to support. The part I put in italics is too stringent. National security quite obviously necessitates classification. E.g., Turing's classified Enigma team was definitely less of a threat to democracy than, say, the WWII equivalent of an HN public…

yes it does imply that, The reason they have never been held accountable is because of the redactions, because they punish "whistleblowers" more than people that abuse the system, the power under which they can do that punishment is the secrecy laws themselves

You fail to see they irrevocably connected, the root cause of the abuse it the secrecy, anything other than eliminating the authority, is simply putting a band aid over a bullet hole

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#147

Post by phpisthebest »

the-printer wrote: post #44
phpisthebest wrote: post #32

You can not have "Government by the people, for the people" when you allow some people to keep secrets from other people under the guise of "national security" Self governance is incompatible with states secrets, and only leads to abuse, corruption, and tyranny. History is full of known abuses, and for every known abuse there is the potential for LOTS of unknown abuse. One can say "well congress will hold them accoun…

"Self governance" at the scale being discussed here is a myth.

I would agree, that is why we were setup to have power distributed not just in 3 branches, but 50 states, and the people themselves.

The more consolidated the power becomes the less we the people are able to govern ourselves.

The presidential elections should be the least important in any time we are not at war, but it seems now everyone looks to not only the Federal government, not one branch and one person in one branch of the federal government to fix all the nations problems.

"The President" has become a title of nobility, which is a sad place to find ourselves.

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#148

Post by dukeofdoom »

oneshtein wrote: post #132
dukeofdoom wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably because it would not be deployed on them. Or they would have received assurances of a treatment/antidote being provided. Top $ paid to officials, military aid grants to the country, US security assurances. The research could be done by outside companies, just used Ukraine as a black site to get around existing international laws.

If biological weapon would not be deployed, then why Ukraine need it at all? There is no other hostile country populated by Slavs AND separated by ocean from Ukraine, to be a target for such weapon. Can you give us a logical reason why Ukraine needs a weapon for mass-suicide? Other nations may want a such weapon, but why Ukraine may want it to such extent to participate in development of such suicidal weapon?

Well, every weapon can be used for mass-suicide, so not much different in that respect.

Few reasons:

1. Even without an antidote a weapon that could kill a significant portion of the population is a useful weapon. It acts as a deterrent from being attacked. Mutual assured self destruction is a powerful deterrent.

2. As political leverage. Eg. North Korea is able to leverage its nuclear weapons to extort the international community.

3. If you believe Biological warfare is where warfare is headed, you want to be at the forefront of that research.

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#149

Post by GartzenDeHaes »

rvba wrote: post #144
GartzenDeHaes wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/831901-overview "Known binary agents include the following: GB binary (sarin, GB2): DF is located in 1 canister, while OPA is in a second canister. The isopropyl amine binds to the hydrogen fluoride generated during the chemical reaction. After deployment of the weapon, the 2 canisters rupture and the chemical mixture produces GB."

Binary of sarin is latest they got? Doesnt sound very "new".

The US destroyed it's chemical weapons stockpile in the 1990's and 2000's. After the fall of the Soviet Union, there's no use case for chemical weapons and precision weapons are more profitable.
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