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A rant on bus stops

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Re: A rant on bus stops

#141

Post by wilg »

Pigalowda wrote: post #59
wilg wrote: post #17

The TL;DR here is that California has a housing crisis, which caused homelessness, which caused people to look into a bus stop design which doesn’t serve as a proper shelter. Here’s a data-driven argument that homelessness is a problem with lack of homes, more so than mental health or drugs or whatever else: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-... Fixing housing will have a lot of great downst…

What’s with these “data-driven” nonsense posts? You live in a west coast city? Go outside! Use your eyeballs! You think the naked guy who’s floridly psychotic and taking a dump on the sidewalk would be A OK with a cheap dwelling? The people smoking fentanyl at the train station and on the buses? They just need a little house and they’ll be fine? Such utter neoliberal nonsense.

This is, obviously, intellectually lazy. The article discusses mental health and drugs and why they cannot be the main issue. Anecdotes don't really change that, hence why people use data instead of their emotions to solve problems.

Re: A rant on bus stops

#142

Post by wilg »

tmnvix wrote: post #115
wilg wrote: post #17

The TL;DR here is that California has a housing crisis, which caused homelessness, which caused people to look into a bus stop design which doesn’t serve as a proper shelter. Here’s a data-driven argument that homelessness is a problem with lack of homes, more so than mental health or drugs or whatever else: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-... Fixing housing will have a lot of great downst…

I'm not going to argue that building more housing will not help the situation, but I think it would also be worth looking at some of the underlying reasons for the lack of available housing. I would bet my bottom dollar that the proportion of residences that are not used as a primary residence is higher today than it was 30 years ago. A few reasons that this would be the case in my opinion: - A second home (holiday h…

A lot of people think this, but it's not a meaningful counterargument, nor do I think there are simple regulatory changes that would help much. https://journal.firsttuesday.us/californias-distinctly-low-v...

Re: A rant on bus stops

#143

Post by mindslight »

Retric wrote: post #136
mindslight wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism is not uniform condition of a society, and private capital exists in societies that we wouldn't describe as capitalist. My point is that embracing "capitalism" creates a tendency to approach problems in terms of private capital, similar to how programming in an object oriented language causes a tendency to decompose problems into objects. > The same presumably applies to the existence or non existence of i…

Calling things anti-capitalist is useful propaganda independent of it actually being anti-capitalist. > private capital exists in societies that we wouldn’t describe as capitalist Capitalism at its core is an outgrowth of respect for private property which creates incentives for further investment. A Neolithic hunter is going to invest time into better tools if he’s not worried about those tools being taken from them…

> Capitalism at its core is an outgrowth of respect for private property which creates incentives for further investment. A Neolithic hunter is going to invest time into better tools if he’s not worried about those tools being taken from them. As such, an inner city ghetto isn’t capitalist if people expect their stuff to be stolen regularly.

Is this not one of the main justifications for imaginary property, putting the concept solidly under the banner of capitalism? The only possible difference I see is that physical property is exclusionary, while imaginary property is not. So it depends whether you consider "taken from" and "stolen" to refer to copying of non-exclusionary information or not. But "owners" of IP capital certainly seem to think so!

I do basically agree with the thrust of this quote! But it's also important to acknowledge the limitations, as massive capital holders will not. Especially when they can benefit even more from not-investing (eg the sorry state of telecom infrastructure in places where competition is non-existent).

Re: A rant on bus stops

#144

Post by wilg »

ajuc wrote: post #75
wilg wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I posted elsewhere in this thread, not a good diagnosis of homelessness. https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-...

Houses per capita: https://imgur.com/oS9d2kf from https://www.oecd.org/els/family/HM1-1-Housing-stock-and-cons... Homeless per 10k: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_ho... Notice that USA has more houses per capita than countries with homeless populations that are significantly smaller. People can move between American states easily. If there's a state where living as a homeless person is easi…

Not sure what you're talking about, but I think if you honestly look into the situation you'll find the right answer.

Re: A rant on bus stops

#145

Post by Clubber »

kika wrote: post #137
Clubber wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gun ownership rights are constantly being attacked, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Freedom of speech is also constantly under attack, as is press. Religion is constantly under attack too. Freedom of assembly is almost non-existent. Any government redress is fine as long as it can be ignored. That's just the first two amendments.

but you don't have soldiers in your home! at least 3A is fine.

Well, unless you consider the NSA eavesdropping on you via internet logging and credit card purchases in your home. I guess the NSA isn't technically a soldier.

Re: A rant on bus stops

#146

Post by cwalv »

rippercushions wrote: post #20
Pigalowda wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in an apartment with neighbors who are subsidized, there’s a psychiatric hospital in every major city, and all night movie theaters would exist if there was a market for them. If you think there’s a market and money to be made - start your own

> If you think there’s a market and money to be made - start your own I'm genuinely unsure if this is a parody of the American Way here. "There's no problem here, but if there was, the free market will solve it!"

> I'm genuinely unsure if this is a parody of the American Way here

They said 2 of the 3 things we "used to" have we still actually have, and the 3rd thing is a waste of money because nobody wants it. It seems inauthentic to you to say that there's not enough demand to support all night movie theaters?

Re: A rant on bus stops

#147

Post by Pigalowda »

Avshalom wrote: post #128
Pigalowda wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No - it doesn’t solve anything. Some cheap crappy collection of houses that are “maintained” by whom? The psychotics and fentanyl users? The “solution” creates a ghetto that has to be maintained by city expenditure. And after that dumb expensive mess fails, then what? Maybe that’s your neolib solution this entire time - ghettos. Typical.

neoliberalism is (broadly) an ideology that markets are/will-find the optimal solution for everything. Giving people housing, not being a market-based-solution, is not neoliberalism. Also yes, maintained by city expenditure, it's been shown time and time again that housing is way fucking cheaper than a combination of policing and emergency medicine. that's not even to touch the moral/ethical imperative that human lif…

Yes yes very righteous and unproductive.

My answer: 3 strike rule and semi permanent sequestration by the state.

You get your cheap housing after all.

Re: A rant on bus stops

#148

Post by kika »

Clubber wrote: post #145
kika wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but you don't have soldiers in your home! at least 3A is fine.

Well, unless you consider the NSA eavesdropping on you via internet logging and credit card purchases in your home. I guess the NSA isn't technically a soldier.

that's 4A and its state sucks ass. NSA is not military so they are of course welcome to stay!

Re: A rant on bus stops

#149

Post by Avshalom »

Pigalowda wrote: post #147
Avshalom wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

neoliberalism is (broadly) an ideology that markets are/will-find the optimal solution for everything. Giving people housing, not being a market-based-solution, is not neoliberalism. Also yes, maintained by city expenditure, it's been shown time and time again that housing is way fucking cheaper than a combination of policing and emergency medicine. that's not even to touch the moral/ethical imperative that human lif…

Yes yes very righteous and unproductive. My answer: 3 strike rule and semi permanent sequestration by the state. You get your cheap housing after all.

"sequestration"

Incarceration.

Slave labor.

Because you saw a penis three times.

Re: A rant on bus stops

#150

Post by Pigalowda »

wilg wrote: post #141
Pigalowda wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s with these “data-driven” nonsense posts? You live in a west coast city? Go outside! Use your eyeballs! You think the naked guy who’s floridly psychotic and taking a dump on the sidewalk would be A OK with a cheap dwelling? The people smoking fentanyl at the train station and on the buses? They just need a little house and they’ll be fine? Such utter neoliberal nonsense.

This is, obviously, intellectually lazy. The article discusses mental health and drugs and why they cannot be the main issue. Anecdotes don't really change that, hence why people use data instead of their emotions to solve problems.

Yea, I’d rather be “intellectually lazy” and grounded in reality.

These people aren’t using “data” to solve problems. What a joke.

Here’s what’s going to happen - voting citizens will eventually get tired of the drugs, property crime, and homeless and they’ll elect a mayor who is “tough on crime”. There will be a crack down and the public spaces will improve however eventually regress back. Then the cycle repeats. And a new academic group says if there were more cheap housing all the problems will be solved.

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