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Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

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Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#141

Post by nerpderp82 »

_hypx wrote: post #122
unethical_ban wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, even 40 miles is a significant portion of many peoples commutes. Elimination of 50-95% of gas consumption is a big win.

FYI, 40 miles is not plucked out of a hat. Scientists specifically mention that number because it exceeds the daily average driving distance of >90% of people. It is basically the point where any further increases in range becomes unnecessary cost.

A 24 kwH pack (or less) along with a https://www.liquidpiston.com/ engine could provide for an amazing hybrid platform. I think these large battery packs are an obscene waste. Even the 24 kwH pack should be running in 24 electric assist bicycles. Anything over 50 kwH is waste and preventing someone else from going electric.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#142

Post by feanaro »

jeffbee wrote: post #94
sandworm101 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, I looked around and couldn't find an equivalent for Honda motorcycles. Perhaps Honda understands their customers better than we think. Honda seems perfectly willing to build tracking-free products when the customer base cares enough . I have never met any sportbike rider willing to share one iota of ongoing GPS data with anyone.

Well, the motorcycle community is overstocked with privacy lunatics, preppers, gun nuts and other extremists, so this makes sense. Also I can't think of any Honda motorcycle with a GPS aside from the Gold Wing, which stretches the definition of motorcycle in numerous ways. On the other hand every motorcyclist I ride with carries a Garmin inReach, which is the very definition of sharing your GPS with someone.

I think anyone willing to share this data is an extremist.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#143

Post by flangola7 »

megous wrote: post #106
lmkg wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Personally identifiable information" is a legal term with a legal definition[1], and location data is not PII. Companies think that PII is basically just your name because that's literally true: PII means name and government-issued ID number. That's it. Everything else is not PII. Relatedly, PII sucks as a basis for privacy law. The laws enshrining PII were made in response to identity theft[2], and that's the "thre…

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... (1) ‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data , an online identifier or to one or more factors speci…

Thank you I was just about to link this.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#144

Post by geraldwhen »

lmkg wrote: post #91
SR2Z wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, companies seem to think that "personally identifiable information" is basically just your name. That's clearly wrong because GPS data and VIN make it extremely straightforward to figure out who a car owner is. As far as I'm concerned, this is PII. That statement is a bald-faced lie and a state AG should bring charges over this - it's extraordinarily irresponsible for Toyota to collect this data and then leak it…

"Personally identifiable information" is a legal term with a legal definition[1], and location data is not PII. Companies think that PII is basically just your name because that's literally true: PII means name and government-issued ID number. That's it. Everything else is not PII. Relatedly, PII sucks as a basis for privacy law. The laws enshrining PII were made in response to identity theft[2], and that's the "thre…

Not quite. An email address plus an address could be PII.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#145

Post by thewataccount »

ambicapter wrote: post #120
thewataccount wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://www.honda.com/privacy/connected-product-privacy-noti... ~~~ Their's is a lot better, does still include Geolocation, audio recordings, navigation usage, however the usage looks limited to just Honda and the obviously required services: ~~~ > We will not use Geolocation Information for our own marketing purposes or disclose identifiable Geolocation Information with third parties (except our service providers…

What's a service provider in this context? Contracted automotive shops? Police?

Service providers are:

Satellite, traffic, and telecommunications companies; Roadside assistance vendors; Contact centers; Research and development vendors; Providers of software integrated into our vehicles and systems; Marketing and non-marketing communications, analytics, and consulting firms; Professional service firms such as attorneys and accountants; Day-to-day business operations vendors such as courier services, facilities management suppliers, and information technology and network support.

Although it's worth mentioning:

> These companies may use Covered Information for their everyday business purposes, including marketing, customer service, fulfillment and related purposes. These disclosures may qualify as a sale under certain state privacy laws.

So I might need to retract my statement on their policy being good.

As for law enforcement:

> We may use and disclose Covered Information and any other information about you to government or law enforcement officials or private parties if, in our discretion, we believe it is necessary or appropriate to respond to legal requests (including court orders, investigative demands and subpoenas), to protect the safety, property, or rights of ourselves, consumers, or any other third party, to prevent or stop any illegal, unethical, or legally actionable activity, or to comply with law.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#146

Post by feanaro »

version_five wrote: post #110
short_sells_poo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Interior images, exterior images, facial geometry, voice recordings, This is an absolutely unbelievable level of privacy intrusion IMO. I 100% support very heavily fining this sort of behavior, otherwise it will continue to proliferate.

Where would the support for fines come from? When government understands these issues at all, they only want more control and restriction. The only thing I can imagine legislators getting upset about is they the car manufacturers are not sharing all the info with government by default. Next steps will be mandating tracking, not fining for it.

Well, try not being so passive. Are you living in an unchangeable authoritarian system?

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#147

Post by mpol »

feanaro wrote: post #137
sandworm101 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, how do the shrink-wrapped EULA's work when you sell a computer? What is Microsoft's position on you selling your windows license to a third party? I expect that car manufacturers will eventually take a similar line. But it won't be a big deal for very long. As we will soon all be paying subscriptions to use our cars, license transfers will be balled up into the transfer fees paid when you move your ongoing subs…

How will this happen if we don't accept it?

What does this mean? How do you "not accept this"? Are you jumping up and down now interior pictures are leaked from your Toyota? Do you not pay for recurring fees of licenses? Do you send an angry phone call in the general direction of Toyota HQ?

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#148

Post by nerpderp82 »

Dowwie wrote: post #38

That's not all that Toyota should be held responsible for. Corporate issues service bulletins about parts under warranty and their certified service centers ignore the warranties, charging customers full price for replacement. I caught a local service center doing just that in January of this year.

File a complaint with your state Attorney General if you are in the US.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#149

Post by ThePowerOfFuet »

thewataccount wrote: post #23

Their privacy policy is wild and every customer is opted into the connect services by default. Interior images, exterior images, facial geometry, voice recordings, location/driving data, "multimedia screen data", https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230512182022/https://www.toyot...

> This Privacy Notice DOES NOT apply to: >[...] > Any Toyota vehicles equipped with Connected Services located outside of the continental United States, Alaska and Hawaii.

Ah, so only Americans are getting shafted.

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