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Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

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Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#141

Post by KennyBlanken »

zeagle wrote: post #127
jesprenj wrote: post #51

I got a Samsung S21 FE 5G as an award on a programming competition. OEM unlocking wasn't even an option in the developer settings until I connected the phone to the internet and set the date to one month in the past (I assume this has something to do with the warranty -- you can't even unlock the bootloader right away). An internet connection was required before even using the phone on the Android initial setup scree…

I liked my Samsung phones but after the a couple of them went end of life despite being very usable I am never buying one of their devices again and sticking with Pixel. There should be an Android code of ethics or regulation to unlock bootloaders of these devices when discontinued to minimize eWaste.

Why on earth would Google institute a policy that runs completely contrary to the cell phone industry's business model, making their devices as useless as possible as fast as possible?

It always cracked me up that Apple gets bashed for planned obsolescence when they support their phones longer than anyone else in the industry.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#142

Post by Johnny555 »

quadrangle wrote: post #43
plorg wrote: post #2

The title of the article is misleading. The author says the phone cannot be bootloader unlocked without first connecting to the Internet. Once they have connected they are able to unlock the bootloader.

The title is precisely correct, but it is easy to infer wrongly "and you can't enable it".

Which is what makes it misleading.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#144

Post by williamDafoe »

martius wrote: post #120
williamDafoe wrote: post #117

Google has a console called panopticon where they can see every Chromebook in the world. This monitoring facility is used to measure bug / crash prevalence in e.g. 802.11 driver software and to determine how much of each fleet is running the latest ChromeOS security patches. They can do this because Unlike Microsoft Google ports ChromeOS onto new laptops and tests the crap out of them (including the verification that…

Source for this? There is a well known tool named Panopticon (abbreviated pcon) internally and this is not at all what you describe. (I work at Google)

I was in the chrome dogfooding program at Google, testing pre release hardware and I used panopticon. They locked it down a short while later. I could see all the acer Chromebooks in the wild before the lockdown. I imagine they renamed it and/or came up with a new tool named panopticon since it's a common term for a special type of prison where from one location you can observe every prisoner at once.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#145

Post by danuker »

RicoElectrico wrote: post #128
j1elo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xiaomi does the same (or at least did until my latest phone change i.e. around 3 years ago). You must unlock the bootloader before being able to install a custom recovery image such as TWRP, which itself is used to install custom ROMs. This unlock involves: creating a user account in the Xiaomi services website, logging into that account from your phone's system, then having the phone logged in for at least 7 days ,…

The rationale for the hoops and waiting period is IIRC that shady sellers were tampering with phones sold through AliExpress etc.

Security, the classic excuse behind reducing freedom.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#147

Post by williamDafoe »

yellowapple wrote: post #110
jvanderbot wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pixel's are locked down a very tiny bit , and I don't think this is some kind of dystopian over-reach with security as an excuse. For all the security listed in this thread the whole "I must connect to the internet once" problem is a very fair tradeoff from the user's perspective.

And what happens when that server on the Internet stops authorizing bootloader unlocks, or disappears entirely?

This would only be a problem not when you first buy the phone but only if you buy a very very old used phone that has never had the OS replaced and google has exited the phone business and if you wanted to replace the OS.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#148

Post by williamDafoe »

pessimizer wrote: post #45
jvanderbot wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pixel's are locked down a very tiny bit , and I don't think this is some kind of dystopian over-reach with security as an excuse. For all the security listed in this thread the whole "I must connect to the internet once" problem is a very fair tradeoff from the user's perspective.

> Pixel's are locked down a very tiny bit Other people might instead say "Pixels are locked down." > I don't think this is some kind of dystopian over-reach with security as an excuse. Why? > "I must connect to the internet once" problem is a very fair tradeoff from the user's perspective. Speak for yourself.

In return for this feature a class of lower income users are able to buy hundreds of millions of phones and pay for them over an extended period using monthly payments on their phone account. This is the trade-off Google makes.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#149

Post by musicale »

pbasista wrote: post #38

> connect the device to the Internet before they are allowed to install the operating system they want Phoning home before undertaking such an activity takes away the ownership rights from the customers. They do not actually own these devices even after they have purchased them. The reason is that an important part of their ownership rights, i.e. the freedom to use the software of their choice, has been withheld from…

> Phoning home before undertaking such an activity takes away the ownership rights from the customers. They do not actually own these devices even after they have purchased them.

Smartphones have become pocket game consoles, with the same business model.

There may be other Android app stores, but Google Play still owns the Android app store market (except in China where Google is blocked/unavailable) - in spite of charging hefty platform fees comparable to those charged by Apple or Nintendo.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#150

Post by yellowapple »

smeej wrote: post #137
yellowapple wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Erm, why would you ever want an app for your bank on your mobile phone? To easily check balances and make transfers wherever I am. This is possible without the app, but the app makes it easier/quicker than the mobile site in most cases. > So that when you get mugged, it can turn into a kidnapping? How do you suggest a mugger to find out whether such an app is even installed, let alone do anything about it, in this…

> How do you suggest a mugger to find out whether such an app is even installed, let alone do anything about it, in this day and age of full-device encryption being the default? They make you do it, the same way they made you give them the device in the first place. I don't know why anyone thinks it would turn into a kidnapping, but it's pretty easy for someone who has already forced you to give them your phone to us…

What I'm getting at is that attempting to escalate a mugging beyond "I point a gun/knife at you, you give me stuff, I get away as fast as physically possible, I fence the stuff you gave me as soon as possible" introduces a lot more risks than what most muggers are willing to bear. Things get hairy very quickly the moment either the mugger or muggee deviates from that script - and forcing the muggee to unlock a mugged device is a rather drastic deviation, especially when the muggee can just as quickly call the police or reboot the phone or otherwise introduce yet more risk for the mugger on top of the existing risk from prolonging the duration of the mugging.

Same deal with home burglaries. No burglar in one's right mind is going to give the slightest iota of a rodent's anus about the possibility of there being a Bitcoin wallet and SSH keys on your laptop; most burglaries are smash-and-grab, and are intended specifically to minimize the amount of time spent inside the victim's home. Every second adds risk of complications; unless the burglar is targeting you specifically and knows ahead of time exactly which devices might have valuable data, it's in said burglar's best interests to take the laptop and run rather than spend precious seconds (or worse: minutes) "persuading" you to unlock it.

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