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A.I. imagery may destroy history as we know it

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Re: A.I. imagery may destroy history as we know it

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mind that this is about the public image. (They expressly state that it is not the historians, those with expertise in fine detail and congruence with out-of-frame context, who they are worried about. It just happens so that they have devoted their lives to capturing and archiving and communicating such images.)

Hmmm, experts protecting the poor befuddled masses sure looks an awful lot like hurried moat building.

Hmmm, non-experts saying "Of course my mother knows everything about computer security, don't even think about telling her about the risk of viruses on the modern internet"

At least try to have some nuance here.

Re: A.I. imagery may destroy history as we know it

#142

Maybe a crypto person would know more, but couldn't some DAO be incentivized to verify the authenticity of current known historical documents/images and create a block chain of agreed upon authentic historical imagery? The longer it takes for us to do that, maybe the more likely falsifications can slip in, but I have a feeling that the real world nature of many history books and libraries means we can have a pretty s…

As a crypto person, I don't think a DAO would really add anything here. Individuals or traditional organization "signing" their endorsements of contents authenticity will become a bigger thing in the future. It's not that different from SSL. When you access a website using modern cryptography the content is effectively endorsed by that organization as authentic.

Re: A.I. imagery may destroy history as we know it

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We didn’t stop trusting “authenticated sources” because of “crowdsourced information”. We stopped trusting “authenticated sources” because they constantly lie to fit whatever agenda is being pushed. I can say with certainty that genie is not going back in the bottle no matter how much censoring websites past their prime implement.

eyeroll I read the economist on a weekly basis and can confidently say that that form of curated professional journalism is much better than random partisans on twitter loudly shouting about everything

> Here are 5 prompts YOU NEED TO KNOW BEFORE AI REPLACES YOUR JOB

I think this is what is going to cause me to delete twitter.

Re: A.I. imagery may destroy history as we know it

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think, it's about the kind of fascination with an image that connects us to a greater narrative that is our identity. The notion that these generated images do fascinate, while connecting us to a non-existing narrative, is neither out of context nor just superficial, nor is so the exhibition of these images. The fascination emanating from these images (thanks to the transfer of textures and hints of authenticity) i…

Provenance, patina, narrative all of these live inside your head and have nothing to do with reality. It’s the perverse motive of the collector seeking unchanging authenticity. Everything and everyone evolves and changes over time. You can’t stop the clocks.

>Provenance, patina, narrative all of these live inside your head and have nothing to do with reality.

They that control the narrative control the future.

If you believe you are right and you can do no wrong, you are going to have a much different interface with reality then a person that realizes they've made mistakes in the past. The best way to prevent making a mistake in the future is learning from ones past. Of course that past has to be real to correctly learn from it.

Re: A.I. imagery may destroy history as we know it

#145
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your history classes sound a lot more useful than the ones I sat through in the US - ours was mostly delivered as a set of settled fact.

Variance on this is very high. Where your classes landed on the memorize-think axis will swing wildly from district to district, and even possibly from teacher to teacher within the same school.

Yeah, definitely. A couple of my later teachers edged slightly into think territory, but I don't remember the textbooks structurally encouraging this, so memorization was the easy path. Which is a shame - since rediscovering history through podcasts that discuss this stuff in depth, I realized that I actually love history - it's kind of the study of how big groups of people act and interact with systems, which is super fascinating, and super relevant to engineering, finance, civics, politics, and life in general. I just wish I'd realized that earlier, and not wasted so much time in school absorbing a useless dehydrated version.

Re: A.I. imagery may destroy history as we know it

#146
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your history classes sound a lot more useful than the ones I sat through in the US - ours was mostly delivered as a set of settled fact.

You know, it's been a long time, but even growing up in Orlando Florida, I felt like a lot of my history was about "why" more than anything else. Maybe it's just because I had multiple history classes in a row taught by retired lawyers, but I actually felt like I got a fairly interesting perspective of history.

Funny, almost all of my best teachers seemed to be retired from something else.

Re: A.I. imagery may destroy history as we know it

#147

Meh - I don't know. At least in the UK, "History" classes at school were less about memorising the facts, and more about questioning the who, what, why of some source of information. One thing that stands out in my memory is multiple different teachers always drilling into us: "never trust photos" (you don't always know who took them, for what reason, and if they were real or staged or whatever) If 12 year old kids a…

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Re: A.I. imagery may destroy history as we know it

#148
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, it's been a long time, but even growing up in Orlando Florida, I felt like a lot of my history was about "why" more than anything else. Maybe it's just because I had multiple history classes in a row taught by retired lawyers, but I actually felt like I got a fairly interesting perspective of history.

Funny, almost all of my best teachers seemed to be retired from something else.

There's probably a selection bias towards people who "do things because they feel like it" and "do things for the paycheck".

If you're a retired lawyer, it's likely that you're teaching just keep yourself entertained, or maybe just some supplemental income [1]. When you do things for fun, instead of out of necessity, it gives you the distinct advantage of allowing yourself to focus only on things that are actually interesting to you.

It's possible that my high school history teachers started teaching history specifically because they felt like they might have a unique take on it.

[1] I know that teachers are traditionally underpaid; however if it's just supplemental income, "underpaid" is still often better than "zero income". $36,000 a year isn't a ton of money, but if you're already largely retired, it might be the difference between "taking a trip this summer" or not.

Re: A.I. imagery may destroy history as we know it

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think, it's about the kind of fascination with an image that connects us to a greater narrative that is our identity. The notion that these generated images do fascinate, while connecting us to a non-existing narrative, is neither out of context nor just superficial, nor is so the exhibition of these images. The fascination emanating from these images (thanks to the transfer of textures and hints of authenticity) i…

Provenance, patina, narrative all of these live inside your head and have nothing to do with reality. It’s the perverse motive of the collector seeking unchanging authenticity. Everything and everyone evolves and changes over time. You can’t stop the clocks.

Mind that this about none of these. It is about what images mean to us, how we are accustomed to read them, and how this may be thus invalidated, or, even worse, how these simulacra may produce a false vector pointing towards us, including any notion of change or variety, as they are universally deemed to (pre)serve a narrative of how we became what. No clocks involved. (As for the public image, as opposed to historians and their curated interpretation, think of them more as a talisman for reality than a record of reality, it just happens so that these aspects currently/still tend to overlap.)

PS: I'm pretty sure, at least Shane Balkowitsch, as someone producing in the ancient process of wet plates, is quite aware of the aspects of the image as a produced image, produced by certain processes, under certain circumstances of production, as an opus operatum bearing all the marks – and what goes with this. What does it mean to extend this lineage to modern captures, to incorporate modern imagery into this ancestry? Surely, there's an intend and some understanding. What does it mean, if the image isn't anymore an opus operatum in the traditional sense, but just a generated one, generated by an imperative prompt, if its depiction isn't the trace of a real subject (as in likeness), but extracted from a compressed semantic field built from a biased aspect of assorted imagery and controlled by a REL instance trained to select pleasing images? What does this mean to us, when the photo loses its quality as an index? Or, worse, if we still pretend that there should be such an index, just because we're accustomed to this – and the texture feels like it?

Re: A.I. imagery may destroy history as we know it

#150
post #74

Related: Peter Jackson's They Shall Not Grow Old [0] is a great counterpoint to the general idea put forth here. If you've not seen it, do yourself and ANZAC Day treat and watch it this evening. It's from just before all this AI stuff went off. Jackson (of LoTR fame) is a huge WWI buff and was approached by the Imperial War Museum and the BBC for this film. He takes old archival footage and then uses a lot of compute…

I'm with you. Black and white footage feels fake. The colored stuff was mind boggling. The worst part was that the footage was taken during mostly peaceful moments and re-enactments for obvious reasons. The stuff in Ukraine on head mounted cameras is something that has surpassed all.

Yeah, I'm waiting for film makers, like Werner Hertzog, to take all the Ukraine footage to the cinema. 'Cleaning' it up to get past the artifacts and jitter and confusion to a real message. Editing all those hours of gopro will be massively helped by AI, I think.
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