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US could soon approve MDMA therapy

nature.com

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Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#141

Post by KyeRussell »

starkd wrote: post #48
Glench wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an outsider, that American obsession with prescripted medication seems maddening. Totally sympathize with that viewpoint, but I'm not sure if this commenter knows that MDMA will not be a prescription medication — no one is prescribed or goes home with MDMA. The treatment in the trials is only 3 medication-assisted therapy sessions with normal preparation and integration therapy sessions before and after. After t…

People will use it as justification to buy it illegally.

And?

MDMA very realistically shouldn’t be lumped in with cocaine, heroin, etc. Hell, opiates as a whole! Just based on the effect profile and typical usage patterns, I baselessly posit that one is more likely to be a daily marijuana user than a daily MDMA user, even taking into account the number of people that use each drug in the first place.

Nobody is holding you up with a knife or gun, or stealing the coins out of your car, to get their next fix of MDMA.

Nobody is acting aggressively on the street or in a nightclub because they’ve had MDMA, or not gotten enough of it.

MDMA is certainly not without its risks / dangers. Someone can easily irresponsibly take too much and end up in hospital or dead. Someone can easily take the right amount of the right stuff and end up in hospital or dead just because they had an adverse reaction. You could ruin your relationships, throw your brain off-balance such that you never really enjoy anything again. There’s the whole ‘gateway drug’ argument. Blah blah blah.

Let’s really stop and think very carefully about whether these risks (which unlike say…meth, heroin, etc, have an absolutely negligible societal impact per capita compared to alcohol, tobacco, etc) should even show up on the radar when weighed up against the increasingly proven positive effects of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#142

Post by hammyhavoc »

wnolens wrote: post #126
Glench wrote: post #18

Personally, I left tech in large part to become a therapist doing psychedelic-assisted clinical work when it becomes legal. It really does seem like it can be a potent tool for relieving great suffering. You can read a little about my story here: http://glench.com/WhyIQuitTechAndBecameATherapist/

Nice to read your journey. Glad you found a way through. I had a similar experience to the first half of your story. Was so unfulfilled in tech that I ended up quitting and took time off not working, trying lots of different things, getting very frustrated and depressed along the way. I did try LSD (ok, a lot of LSD) and instead of it helping me process/sort through/integrate some of my troubles it added new ones and…

I wish more people spoke about their negative experiences with psychedelics. It's a sobering and necessary counterpoint to most of what floods these threads of how it changed someone's life, but the "how" is largely ambiguous.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#143

Post by BurningFrog »

themitigating wrote: post #66
fasterik wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a few issues with your argument. Just because something has underlying social factors doesn't mean that it shouldn't also be treated with drugs and therapy. The latest wave of psychedelic research is not simply pushing a prescription drug; all of the research on MDMA, psilocybin, etc. is finding that these drugs work within a clinical setting paired with therapy. Also, I wasn't able to find a source saying that…

I think his argument is that the US should focus on trying to solve the underlying issues, either first or at least concurrently

This argument implies that approving MDMA therapy is one of the biggest efforts in the country, consuming huge resources that could go to solving big societal issues.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#144

Post by say_it_as_it_is »

Glench wrote: post #18

Personally, I left tech in large part to become a therapist doing psychedelic-assisted clinical work when it becomes legal. It really does seem like it can be a potent tool for relieving great suffering. You can read a little about my story here: http://glench.com/WhyIQuitTechAndBecameATherapist/

Where are you located, and what are your academic goals before practicing? How will you respond to cease-and-desist type orders from licensing bodies who disagree with psychedelic-first therapy protocols?

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#145

Post by no_wizard »

mardifoufs wrote: post #124
bluetomcat wrote: post #20

As an outsider, that American obsession with prescripted medication seems maddening. Many of these conditions are caused by underlying societal factors and are nowhere near as widespread outside the US. The American solution is to throw more pills at the problem, or ostracise the patients not willing to take that route. Even children are offered an ever larger number of pills, and are constantly challenged about thei…

Ok but this isn't really true. The country with the most anti-depressant intake is Iceland , the US is around second or third place, yet the other countries in the "top ten" of antidepressant usage per capita are almost all european nations. The USA isn't an outlier, but I guess we really can't escape the "do americans really, really do X?" even when it is trivially easy to verify. The funny thing is that the reason…

In fact, the US[0] and New Zealand are the only countries were drug advertising like we see in the US are even legal. This absolutely will have an affect on perception

[0]: https://www.health.harvard.edu/medications/do-not-get-sold-o...

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#146

Post by hammyhavoc »

photochemsyn wrote: post #83

I'd imagine pharmaceutical interests in the USA in the mental illness treatment & maintenance field are depressed by this news - it's going to crush their profit model if successful: > "And it’s unclear whether approving MDMA on the basis of MAPS’s data would ease the way for other companies hoping to study and develop the drug, or whether anyone would even want to. MDMA has been around since 1912 and cannot be paten…

I don't think it's going to replace ADHD medication whatsoever. How would that even work?

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#147

Post by dimal »

bluetomcat wrote: post #20

As an outsider, that American obsession with prescripted medication seems maddening. Many of these conditions are caused by underlying societal factors and are nowhere near as widespread outside the US. The American solution is to throw more pills at the problem, or ostracise the patients not willing to take that route. Even children are offered an ever larger number of pills, and are constantly challenged about thei…

Normally, I’d agree with you, but in this case, I think the medication is warranted. While PTSD may be caused by societal factors, healing large numbers of individuals from it is not going to happen without medication. Speaking as someone who is recovering from PTSD, I can tell you that no amount of talk therapy can heal it. It can help, but never heal it. If MDMA is effective as it appears to be, we must utilize it. If we heal people from PTSD, then we have a chance to heal society.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#148

Post by [deleted] »

notch898c wrote: post #115
bheadmaster wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am fairly skeptical of the claim that banning guns would significantly reduce gun violence. People who commit the most gun violence crimes (criminals) will find a way to get guns regardless of the laws. I live in a country where it's very hard to get weapons legally, yet almost every drug bust in the news also contains a significant amount of confiscated firearms.

FGC-9; everybody in Europe who wants a gun can trivially have it within a week without interacting with the criminal element or buying regulated components. That goes for modern ammunition too.

[deleted]

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#149

Post by cactusplant7374 »

bluetomcat wrote: post #20

As an outsider, that American obsession with prescripted medication seems maddening. Many of these conditions are caused by underlying societal factors and are nowhere near as widespread outside the US. The American solution is to throw more pills at the problem, or ostracise the patients not willing to take that route. Even children are offered an ever larger number of pills, and are constantly challenged about thei…

> nowhere near as widespread outside the US

Except they are but they are just ignored because of lack of knowledge and money. Many countries don't even recognize ADHD so the kid never goes to college and doesn't reach their full potential.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#150

Post by augment002 »

bluetomcat wrote: post #98
fasterik wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a few issues with your argument. Just because something has underlying social factors doesn't mean that it shouldn't also be treated with drugs and therapy. The latest wave of psychedelic research is not simply pushing a prescription drug; all of the research on MDMA, psilocybin, etc. is finding that these drugs work within a clinical setting paired with therapy. Also, I wasn't able to find a source saying that…

There's something about American culture that facilitates various psychological conditions. The aggressive, over-expressive, utilitarian individualism, the inability to just stay calm and quiet and think in solitude, the emphasis on material wealth and well-being and looking "sexy", the social warriorism and activism on the same issues.

TV and movies don’t reflect reality.
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