I wish GPT4 had never happened • Hacker News Board

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#141

Post by proamdev123 » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 2:33 PM UTC

netbioserror wrote: post #86

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #29

The big oversight here is that Priya does not want a job , what Priya wants is an income . The point of life is not working, the point of life is to enjoy it. We should strive to eliminate as many jobs as we possibly can, the less we have to work the better it is. To make this possible we need to find a way to a new system that doesn't directly link labour with income .

What a profoundly naive opinion. Most people find meaning, fulfillment, even contentment in working, especially when the problems are engaging and the solutions produce value. Many people claim their lives would be better if they never had to work, but they are bullshitting themselves with childhood naivete. Not working is a sucking void of boredom, nihilism, hedonism, and despair. I've been through some of that befo…

I agree completely.

Additionally, people who hold this belief fail to realize that “I don’t want to work.” ACTUALLY means “I want others to work so I don’t have to.”

For example, how are you going to eat? You are either going to grow, cultivate, and harvest your own food (i.e. work) or you’re expecting others to do that work for you.

Oh, you say it can be “automated”? Well, who’s going to design, build, and maintain the automating machine? That’s all work too!

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#142

Post by blibble » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 2:33 PM UTC

alchemist1e9 wrote: post #97

ChatGTP wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep hearing this but I’ve never heard a coherent plan about how we’d go forwards with AI, like what is the actual strategy and do we actually think this will end. By all accounts it’s probably not going to be ideal?

Perhaps you need to let go of the idea that humanity actually has direct control of how things unfold. Instead focus on your own situation. The idea there is a possibility of an “actual strategy” is I think the real flaw. Government can try to regulate products but given the 8 billion people and numerous advanced economies on the planet any locations that attempts to restrict products that use LLMs for proposed harm…

> Government can try to regulate products but given the 8 billion people and numerous advanced economies on the planet any locations that attempts to restrict products that use LLMs for proposed harm instead of realized harm will probably put themselves at a disadvantage.

we put ourselves at a competitive disadvantage with child labour laws too

data privacy law, banning slavery, emission laws, etc.

to have a fair and just society some things have to be banned or highly regulated, regardless of the economic cost

AI is no different

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#143

Post by avion23 » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 2:33 PM UTC

kweingar wrote: post #84

avion23 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading that article made me angry because I wasted my time. This is a nice analysis à grace de gpt4: Key facts: 1. Priya is a biomedical data curator in her mid-20s from a poor background in Uttar Pradesh, India. 2. She has a bachelor's degree in Biotechnology and her job involves annotating RNA sequencing data from scientific papers. 3. The author tried using GPT-4 to perform Priya's job and achieved the correct re…

The article is not making an argument. The author is not debating whether we should stop using GPT-4. Calling this fallacious reasoning is a category error.

I can see some very real arguments:

- > What is the economic impact of LLMs? Idk (openAI has published some lengthy paper about it). What I do know is that some rich bloke in the US will get a few million dollars richer and Priya will lose her job.

- > I don’t see a long-term career in software anymore. Any dreams I had of earning decent money as a software engineer are slowly fading.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#144

Post by uncleDingle » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 2:33 PM UTC

Entinel wrote: post #83

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #29

The big oversight here is that Priya does not want a job , what Priya wants is an income . The point of life is not working, the point of life is to enjoy it. We should strive to eliminate as many jobs as we possibly can, the less we have to work the better it is. To make this possible we need to find a way to a new system that doesn't directly link labour with income .

This is a nice thought that isn't going to happen. AI will eliminate jobs and rich people will get richer while also widening the moat so you can't use that same tech to compete.

This is the most likely outcome.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#145

Post by bryanlarsen » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 2:34 PM UTC

netbioserror wrote: post #86

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #29

The big oversight here is that Priya does not want a job , what Priya wants is an income . The point of life is not working, the point of life is to enjoy it. We should strive to eliminate as many jobs as we possibly can, the less we have to work the better it is. To make this possible we need to find a way to a new system that doesn't directly link labour with income .

What a profoundly naive opinion. Most people find meaning, fulfillment, even contentment in working, especially when the problems are engaging and the solutions produce value. Many people claim their lives would be better if they never had to work, but they are bullshitting themselves with childhood naivete. Not working is a sucking void of boredom, nihilism, hedonism, and despair. I've been through some of that befo…

The French have a saying "Life begins after retirement". They find meaning, fulfillment and contentment in, for example, stretching a meal out over 4 hours through conversation.

Whether the French viewpoint or the American viewpoint is healthier can be found in the mortality rates.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#146

Post by safety1st » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 2:34 PM UTC

Gud wrote: post #99

netbioserror wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a profoundly naive opinion. Most people find meaning, fulfillment, even contentment in working, especially when the problems are engaging and the solutions produce value. Many people claim their lives would be better if they never had to work, but they are bullshitting themselves with childhood naivete. Not working is a sucking void of boredom, nihilism, hedonism, and despair. I've been through some of that befo…

You can be working without it being your only source of income. If everybody was given let’s say ten million dollars in capital (and endless social security), those who wanted could work. The rest of us wouldn’t mind letting the machines do the work.

As any student who takes Econ 101, or reads history, (or has heard of a country called Argentina? or has opened a newspaper during the past year of post-Covid inflation?) will learn, this assumption is factually incorrect. If you give everyone ten million dollars, there will be a phenomenal and rapid increase in the price of goods, especially consumer staples (since everyone got that money, and everyone buys staples).

You can't really just throw money at the demand side of the equation and expect everything else to stay the same. Supply side will raise their prices because they can (when everyone's got $10M in the bank, why not charge $50, $500 or even $5,000 for a loaf of artisan bread? And eventually other producers of bread follow suit because the consumer has become less price sensitive).

If you want to improve everyone's standard of living, what has repeatedly worked throughout history is to lower the cost of production through technology, and ensure there's lots of competition on the supply side. With enough competition, producers are unable to behave like a cartel. Eventually someone cracks and sacrifices part of their margin to attract more customers, and then a price war ensues. A textbook example is salt, which for most of human history was quite expensive, but after mechanized mining techniques were developed it became so cheap that for the average household it's practically free.

Technology + competition. At this moment in history we're quite good at the technology part of the equation but we have allowed many monopolies and oligopolies to form, so we're struggling at the competition part.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#147

Post by avion23 » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 2:35 PM UTC

kweingar wrote: post #94

avion23 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the title implies that he wishes that gpt4 never existed so those jobs could continue existing like in the past?

A wish is not a proposal

I see your point. Still, I think that is more an argument wrapped in the appearance of a rethorical wish

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#148

Post by ricksunny » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 2:35 PM UTC

"...has a bachelor’s degree in Biotechnology and works as biomedical data curator. Her job is to go through scientific papers that publish RNA sequencing data. She understands the design of the experiment and cleans and annotates the data accordingly... Her work requires just enough domain expertise that it is been non-trivial to automate (until now).

I think you know where this is headed. The day I got off the GPT4 wait-list I asked it to do what Priya does on a daily basis. It got the answer wrong in the first try, but some chain-of-thought prompting and boom. GPT4 gave the correct answer in 1/10th the time it would take Priya and cost a lot less.

I doubt that she will have a job in six months."

I am a ChatGPT4 subscriber. And I have about a 100 biomedical research papers that need going through to pull curated experiment result data from (to extrapolate into broader quantitative in vivo results). Maybe ChatGPT4 could do it. I'm afraid to try it based on other experiences with it. It would take me about as long to vet any output from ChatGPT4 that looks correct as to go through myself de novo. And I'd have to vet each one. Even if only 1 in a hundred resulted in a wrong answer, I would need to know - which 1 of the 100?

If the article's subject starts looking for a job in 6 months, could I have the subject's contact? :)

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#149

Post by avion23 » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 2:35 PM UTC

shigawire wrote: post #80

avion23 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the title implies that he wishes that gpt4 never existed so those jobs could continue existing like in the past?

I think it is more similar to how I wish a cute gazelle wouldn't be eaten by a lion, but that's the way it goes.

I see it more as a very argumentative article where he outlines past, present and future. And he expresses his wish, yes that is true.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#150

Post by vixen99 » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 2:36 PM UTC

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #29

The big oversight here is that Priya does not want a job , what Priya wants is an income . The point of life is not working, the point of life is to enjoy it. We should strive to eliminate as many jobs as we possibly can, the less we have to work the better it is. To make this possible we need to find a way to a new system that doesn't directly link labour with income .

Do we know what Priha does or does not want and what she enjoys?