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Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

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Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#141

Post by andreygrehov »

duxup wrote: post #133
andreygrehov wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Wouldn't it be smarter to actually listen to what Russia is trying to say? What is Russia trying to say? They want to install their own people in other countries regardless of the locals choice?

> They want to install their own people in other countries regardless of the locals choice?

Is that what they were publicly saying since 2007 or is that what you interpret it as perceiving Russia as the evil because big media pumps ad revenue on it?

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#142

Post by tokai »

DeusExMachina wrote: post #79
selfmodruntime wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine joining a defense union when your neighbor declares war on another neighbor. The audacity!

[flagged]

Do you really think NATO has attack numerous countries? Or are you lying on purpose?

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#143

Post by lolinder »

rainworld wrote: post #128
coffeebeqn wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Finnish people seem to disagree with your assessment. This was not a decision made on a whim

Which is irrelevant to what I wrote. And the decision wasn’t made on a whim, it was made because the opportunity had arisen. Popular support was secondary. Not like they held a plebiscite or called an election over the matter.

They're literally (edit: just had their) elections on Sunday. If the polling is wrong and some significant portion of Finns oppose NATO membership, I'm sure they made themselves known.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/4/1/finland-having-clear...

> A poll by the broadcasting company YLE in May showed that 76 percent of Finns were in favour of joining NATO.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#144

Post by duxup »

andreygrehov wrote: post #141
duxup wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wouldn't it be smarter to actually listen to what Russia is trying to say? What is Russia trying to say? They want to install their own people in other countries regardless of the locals choice?

> They want to install their own people in other countries regardless of the locals choice? Is that what they were publicly saying since 2007 or is that what you interpret it as perceiving Russia as the evil because big media pumps ad revenue on it?

Their actions speak pretty loudly.

I’m asking, what is Russia trying to say?

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#145

Post by khochesh_kushat »

rainworld wrote: post #128
coffeebeqn wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Finnish people seem to disagree with your assessment. This was not a decision made on a whim

Which is irrelevant to what I wrote. And the decision wasn’t made on a whim, it was made because the opportunity had arisen. Popular support was secondary. Not like they held a plebiscite or called an election over the matter.

Since you are so concerned about Finnish democracy, this may help: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-09/finnish-s...

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#146

Post by timeon »

rainworld wrote: post #102
khochesh_kushat wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what all the smart people said about Ukraine prior to the invasion, that it was impossible and would never happen.

[flagged]

> last-minute coercive expedition into full-blown war

Putin said he will not invade. But he did. Does not matter how you are trying to turn this around. He did invaded and he did lied about it.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#147

Post by BurningFrog »

thehappypm wrote: post #44
sprash wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These questions are irrelevant. The tactical significance of Finland to Russia is small compared to the resources required to invade it as is. Due to bad cost/benefit ratio it is therefore unlikely for Russia to attack Finland. But now that Finland is part of NATO it has to bear the cost when some other country gets attacked. It's a bad deal.

Russia literally invaded Finland last century

Finland was also part of Russia until 1917.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#149

Post by scottLobster »

sprash wrote: post #48
sebzim4500 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be much more effective theater if they actually succeeded? Why pretend to be incompetent?

[flagged]

Ah, the perennial Russian line that Western militaries are just too expensive to operate for long, and cheap Russian pragmatism will win in the long run. If we can just force them to waste all those expensive missiles on cheap Iranian drones, eventually they'll run out of money!

Yeah, maybe if Russia could sustain the effort for 30 years or something, which they can't. We're just that rich.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#150

Post by alkonaut »

andreygrehov wrote: post #108
The_Colonel wrote: post #4

Finland got de-Finlandized at last. Which is what the expansion of NATO was always about. NATO isn't a threat to Russia itself - if Russia seriously feared NATO aggression, it wouldn't voluntarily demilitarize its NATO borders during the past 13 months. NATO expansion just neutralizes Russian ability to force its will upon its neighbors through threat of aggression (or in case like Ukraine through the use of aggressi…

[flagged]

> the expansion of NATO gives the US ability to force its will upon NATO members and its neighbors

Last I checked countries apply to join, and the alliance is free to leave. And of course like in any organization if you want to reap the benefits you may want to also accept some of the drawbacks. The most obvious one for a country like Finland probably isn't somehow being under the spell of the US, but rather being in an alliance with Turkey and Hungary, which can be pretty problematic for democratic countries these days.

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