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Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

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Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, they did, and this is the reason why people are commenting on this 'American' forum: In my country, immediately after the last US backed coup, the new 'democratic' government literally ditched French and German for foreign language education from all education institutions and pushed English in every level of education. As a result, I, like millions of youth in my generation, had to learn English as a forei…

You've been downvoted for offending Americans by rejecting America's cultural imperialism. I challenge anybody who downvoted this post to provide any other explanation for their decision.

Yep.

> I challenge anybody who downvoted this post to provide any other explanation for their decision.

Let me provide one:

A lot of Americans dont think that anyone could do a concerted, systematic sociopathy like the one I told in my post. Simply because they themselves wouldnt do such a thing, they think that those with whom they identify also wouldnt do that. Anything bad that happened to others or anything bad that is done by their establishment must be some 'coincidence' or a mistake.

This mentality is strengthened by two things: The Just World Theory and lingering Christian behavior patterns that still dominate the American public.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

The just world theory is utilized by people who need to escape reality to avoid cognitive dissonance. Because not doing so and acknowledging the evil and the evildoers in their own society would make living in that society very demoralizing and kill hopes for the future. So, any bad deed must have an explanation, any victim must have 'deserved' it, and everything must be alright with the world.

And lingering religious behavior patterns, because in Christianity, the Christian god and the faithful can do no wrong. They are the good ones. Whereas all evil is done by the unbelievers, heretics and other gods. This belief is translated to modern culture as 'being on the good side' whereas anyone else that is not 'with them' are evil. And so, Americans can do no evil whereas any evil can only be done by others. The manifestations of this can be seen in how every incident like the 2003 Iraq war is interpreted as 'a mistake', or 'an ill advised war', and in things like every US enemy being Hitler.

And these behavior patterns poison the minds of the well-intentioned Americans. Additionally a lot of Americans just flat-out keep the late 19th century manifest destiny white supremacist belief patterns - like how 'brown people' etc not being 'that important' and any bad thing happening in such countries being something unimportant even if it is done by their own establishment, hence it can be ignored.

But mainly, the obsession with being 'on the good side' and projecting every evil and ill to outside to escape cognitive dissonance totally poison the American mind and cause them to ignore even the biggest evils that are being committed in their own society - like how their country kills its own people if they cant pay for healthcare and so on....

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#142
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'd vehemently disagree. There's a clear cultural divide between the average of the US and the average of Europe on many topics, albeit much of that is a cause of the large quantity of remaining traditionalists in the US skewing the American average. For example there's clear differences on secularism, gun-rights, access to abortion, universal healthcare, labour laws, privacy and regulation. > The silent death of eur…

> secularism, gun-rights, access to abortion, universal healthcare, labour laws, privacy and regulation

I think most of these things are political rather than cultural. Specific laws take a variable amount of time to change/evolve, but are generally downstream of culture. Listing these kinds of political issues also tends to create a weird bias as you’re generally paying attention to the most extreme takes on all sides (e.g. you’ve listed access to abortion, but I would hardly consider this to be an indicator that the US was more culturally liberal than most of Europe pre-2022, just as I wouldn’t consider it an indicator that it is less culturally liberal post-2022,… it is more a political artifact than a genuine measure of culture).

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#143
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'd vehemently disagree. There's a clear cultural divide between the average of the US and the average of Europe on many topics, albeit much of that is a cause of the large quantity of remaining traditionalists in the US skewing the American average. For example there's clear differences on secularism, gun-rights, access to abortion, universal healthcare, labour laws, privacy and regulation. > The silent death of eur…

"between the average of the US and the average of Europe"

I'm not sure how one even defines these. As an example, most of the examples you give have a near 50/50 (+/-10%) split here in the US.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#144
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They awarded Obama a Nobel before he ever had a chance to do anything. There is a whole magic negro thing going on with Europeans intent on demonstrating that they aren't bigots. Right until the point they have brown immigrants entering their own country.

> They awarded Obama a Nobel before he ever had a chance to do anything. That one was the celebrity-hungry Norwegian Nobel Committee's fault. They award the peace prize.

Obama got a reception like he was the Pope on his first European trip. It spans more than just the Nobel committee.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't the onus be on local music/movies/books to compete on their own merits? If you go to Brazil, for example, there's zero worry about American music. Brazilian music holds its own, and then some. If you go to India, their domestic cinema is obviously thriving . Nobody's "pushing" American media on consumers around the world. Cultural imperialism is ultimately a false narrative -- consumers pick the things they…

Nobody competes on merit, so this comment makes no sense.

Things like TV shows and movies and music are precisely where people people tend to consume the stuff they actually like, regardless of what is being "pushed". Word of mouth from friends travels fast.

I can't think of any industry that is more merit-driven than entertainment, and never more so than today -- both in terms of creation and distribution. A good movie is a good movie period. No amount of advertising and promotion can make people go watch a flop.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#146
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'd vehemently disagree. There's a clear cultural divide between the average of the US and the average of Europe on many topics, albeit much of that is a cause of the large quantity of remaining traditionalists in the US skewing the American average. For example there's clear differences on secularism, gun-rights, access to abortion, universal healthcare, labour laws, privacy and regulation. > The silent death of eur…

There's no 'average european culture' as inter-european differences are bigger than US-europe divide. The US is basically our common cultural base now.

> secularism, gun-rights, access to abortion, universal healthcare, labour laws, privacy and regulation

At least 4 of those issues are american , not european. this just goes to show how much attention europeans pay to the US issues instead of our own issues (aging of population, demographic deficit, unaffordable housing, unemployment , lack of global competitiveness, old money, brain drain etc). And what about european tech? I only discuss about it on HN, a californian forum.

> privacy

While these are interesting issues, they are nowhere near the top of the mind of average european person. Nobody went out on the streets because they wanted cookie prompts. We are just letting bureaucrats run the show and tell us we should like it

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#147
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'd vehemently disagree. There's a clear cultural divide between the average of the US and the average of Europe on many topics, albeit much of that is a cause of the large quantity of remaining traditionalists in the US skewing the American average. For example there's clear differences on secularism, gun-rights, access to abortion, universal healthcare, labour laws, privacy and regulation. > The silent death of eur…

When I go back to France I see burgers sold everywhere and massively more English words, both compared to 20 years ago.

French culture has very noticeably diluted in that relatively short time.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, they did, and this is the reason why people are commenting on this 'American' forum: In my country, immediately after the last US backed coup, the new 'democratic' government literally ditched French and German for foreign language education from all education institutions and pushed English in every level of education. As a result, I, like millions of youth in my generation, had to learn English as a forei…

You've been downvoted for offending Americans by rejecting America's cultural imperialism. I challenge anybody who downvoted this post to provide any other explanation for their decision.

It's too fucking long.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#149
post #95

On the one hand: If your culture needs a preservation movement, it's not a culture, but a relic. Culture is defined by people, not some sacred thing that needs to be preserved. How much of the Italian cuisine they're trying to protect would exist if they had the same attitude in the 1500s, when the tomato was introduced to Italy? On the other hand: I think countries should resist global cultural homogenisation. No of…

I don't think its necessarily about the culture itself here, its merely a cheap populist tactic to rabble-rouse among a nation that has a rich history and struggles to handle the fact that its present isn't at that zenith. France do a lot of this sort of thing too.

I would argue that belittling cultural preservation demonstrates deep Anglo-centric bias. While its fine for lulz, I worry that you're being sincere. Try asking _anyone_ who doesn't have English as their first language in a serious context how they feel about their language and you'll struggle to find someone without a genuine fondness for it.

On paper there is absolutely nothing wrong with cultures seeking to preserve the use of their own language, however it is fair for us to argue that restrictive and punitive measures such as this are not helpful.

Bear in mind one day English will no longer be the lingua franca as demonstrated by the word for lingua franca. ;). Would English then be a "relic" to you?

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#150
post #12

Yes, precis... Prisencolinensinainciusoly

>> Prisencolinensinainciusoly For those who have not seen it: https://youtu.be/-VsmF9m_Nt8

Context: "Prisencolinensinainciusol" is a song by Italian singer Adriano Celentano, released in 1972. The song's lyrics are intentionally gibberish, meant to sound like American English to an Italian audience. The song is a commentary on the globalisation of language and culture, and the ways in which language can be manipulated and distorted for commercial purposes. It became a hit in Italy and later gained popularity worldwide, and has been seen as a precursor to modern forms of global pop culture.
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