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The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

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Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#141

Post by bitwize »

japhyr wrote: post #86
bitwize wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistically speaking, suicide is the #1 cause of gun death in the US, gang activity is #2. School shootings are far down the list. They get a lot of attention but don't account for a large proportion of deaths. Of course, that any of these deaths occur is tragic, which is why the most sensible solution is repeal of the Second Amendment and implementation of a nationwide, federal license requirement to purchase or o…

That doesn't require a repeal of the second amendment. That just requires a willingness to interpret the full text of the amendment, instead of focusing only on the last four words. School shootings are far down the list as far as fatalities go. But that's a poor way to measure the impact of school shootings. The trauma inflicted by each of these events goes way beyond the number of children killed. Everyone who has…

The full text of the amendment is pretty clear that "a well-regulated militia" depends upon "the right of the people to keep and bear arms", it does not limit that right. In order to train farmers and craftsmen into an effective reserve fighting force, they have to have weapons of their own they can practice with. Times have changed, obviously, and civil society no longer depends on citizen firearm ownership. You can put together a Supreme Court to overturn Heller and other decisions on this issue, but constitutional scholars are likely to consider it rickety jurisprudence.

Repealing the 2nd would be a full-throated declaration that wielding weaponry is a privilege, not a right.

We should probably repeal and replace the First Amendment while we're at it, and tie up some loose ends like Citizens United and the inability of U.S. governments to criminally punish hate speech.

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#142

Post by react_burger38 »

Comparing the whole of the United States to England isn't as informative as one would think, given the wide variety of racial and cultural groups in the United States.

Comparing health outcomes of white Americans of Anglo descent to health outcomes in England would be much more informative. Even more informative would be data that look at white people (and other groups such as Chinese, Indians, etc.) in the US on a county-by-county basis.

The truth is that there are certain groups in the United States whose outcomes are much worse on many statistical bases, and those groups skew the data dramatically downwards. Black people in the US, for example, commit a majority of murders every year [1], despite being only about 13% of the population - almost 4x what the rate would be, if they committed murder at the same rate as white people.

Other disparities are present as well, which mean that there are many communities in the United States where you will live a life just as long and healthy, or even longer and healthier, than in European countries. For example, this article [2] shows a county-by-county breakdown, and many counties in America where life expectancy is over 80.

[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/jason-riley-the-other-ferguson-... [2] https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/3/13/21177268/utah-citizen...

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#143

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #39
robbiep wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven’t understood the article. The decline in life expectancy in the US is not being driven by more rapid decline in the aging population but by young people dying earlier exerting influence over the entire curve. I can assure you that the burden of age related conditions will continue to grow but that again is because the largest generation humans have ever produced is aging out. And on the most part they’re mo…

I don't think you understand the comment. If the life expectancy drops, there are fewer elderly to care for. If people don't make it to 70, you don't have to care for 70+ year Olds. It is a fair thought experiment to explore. Depending on what your priorities are, it could be optimal for everyone to die before retirement age.

If you're going to be utilitarian - if people don't get to 70 they're losing years/decades of productive life.

Those who die young don't contribute much.

Which is also a fair thought experiment to explore.

And that's not getting into equally fair thoughts about morality and humanity.

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#144

Post by wizofaus »

retrac wrote: post #41
legitster wrote: post #4

"1 in 25 Americans being born will not make it to their 40th birthday." Wow. Actually impressed with the analysis backing this up. If you read the entire thread, he actually covers nearly every correlating factor I could think of. And it's pretty clearly drugs, guns, suicide, and cars. (The cardio health one doesn't seem as strong). The one that is crazy to me is the uptick in driving fatalities. Cars are an order of…

> the uptick in driving fatalities [...] An entire generation has to be that much more reckless Smartphones.

Which are omnipresent all over the world but I don't believe the uptick in traffic fatalities is (at least in Australia they were considerably lower in 2020-21 due to covid lockdowns. Mind you we also have very strict laws and stiff fines for mobile phone usage while in control of a vehicle, even if it's idling in traffic or, yes, in a drive-thru lane - technically it's illegal to use your phone to pay in that scenario, unless you switch the engine off first).

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#145

Post by wkat4242 »

Teever wrote: post #126
1123581321 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It matters because it’s ineffective to pursue the wrong root causes.

Agreed. We should implement policies that prevent guns from getting into the hands of children, regardless of whether they're gang members or not.

That'll be very very difficult. Even very restrictive weapon ownership countries like Netherlands and Sweden have a big violent gang problem. And a policy as strict as they have is just totally unthinkable in the political reality of the US.

So a policy stricter than the US can have isn't enough to solve this problem. That's why it's better to aim at reducing accidental underage gun deaths which is much more achievable.

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#146

Post by nradov »

whakim wrote: post #97

The original article points out that the primary difference between the US and the UK (as well as other peer countries) is that you're much more likely to die young in the US. A 5-year-old in the United States has a 4% chance of dying before age 40, whereas a 5-year-old in Australia, Austria, Canada, England and Wales, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, or Switzerland has ~1% chance of dying before age 40 (val…

Yes, there has been a huge increase in the number of accidental fentanyl poisonings. I think this is now the leading cause of accidental death among young people, surpassing even vehicle crashes. Mexican drug cartels have been manufacturing counterfeit prescription painkillers and replacing active ingredients with fentanyl. They have bad quality control and sometimes just put in too much. Fentanyl is so potent that there is only a tiny difference between a recreational dose and a lethal dose, even for opioid addicts who have built up a tolerance.

https://peterattiamd.com/anthonyhipolito/

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#147

Post by smegger001 »

LanceH wrote: post #40
sammalloy wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cars are getting so big that people can’t drive them. While controversial because car companies in the US intentionally chose to market large SUVs to the public, there is some evidence that smaller vehicles are safer and that auto manufacturers have doubled down on unsafe vehicles. Why this is the case, isn’t exactly known, but one of the theories is that bad drivers will get behind bigger cars and take more risks.…

Smaller cars are more dangerous in a multi-car accident. Most accidents only involve a single car. There is less control in larger vehicles. Everyone thinks they are a better driver than they are and the only way they'll end up in an accident is if someone else hits them. Add all this up and many want to drive larger cars.

>Everyone thinks they are a better driver than they are and the only way they'll end up in an accident is if someone else hits them.

I hear this a lot and wonder how true it is because I personally think i am a horrible driver and can't wait until actually safe fully self driving cars take away my need to drive. on the other had a drive a small car and want a smaller one despite sharing the roads with behemoth raised 4x4 pickups that seem to be inexplicably popular.

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#148

Post by wizofaus »

carlmr wrote: post #101
auggierose wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drivers in the US just seem incredibly aggressive to me. I remember crossing some street in downtown Pittsburgh, and a car coming towards me. The guy was clearly seeing me, and accelerating instead of slowing down. I jumped forwards and survived.

I find American drivers are chill compared to Germans.

Autobahn-driving can definitely be nerve-wracking if you're not used to it, being flashed to change lanes when you're already doing over 150 k/h is quite disconcerting to say the least! But there is at least a system to it, and on regular roads Germans seem to drive pretty sensibly.

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#149

Post by 1123581321 »

Teever wrote: post #138
1123581321 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sarcasm noted. Hopefully you understand a multi-pronged approach is needed.

I'm not being sarcastic. A multi-pronged approach that involves reducing the amount of guns in American is a surefire way to reduce access to guns by children, both in gangs and out.

Sarcasm might’ve been the wrong word. I meant to say I see you reusing whatever words I write to disagree with them.

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#150

Post by meany »

auggierose wrote: post #100
legitster wrote: post #4

"1 in 25 Americans being born will not make it to their 40th birthday." Wow. Actually impressed with the analysis backing this up. If you read the entire thread, he actually covers nearly every correlating factor I could think of. And it's pretty clearly drugs, guns, suicide, and cars. (The cardio health one doesn't seem as strong). The one that is crazy to me is the uptick in driving fatalities. Cars are an order of…

Drivers in the US just seem incredibly aggressive to me. I remember crossing some street in downtown Pittsburgh, and a car coming towards me. The guy was clearly seeing me, and accelerating instead of slowing down. I jumped forwards and survived.

Ive lived around the country and the driving culture varies significantly from region to region. East Coast cities are the worst, whereas I find Seattle, where I live now, very east going. Having moved from the east coast, it shocked me to see drivers just stop for pedestrians, even outside of marked off crosswalks. Try that in NY and you’re dead.

I saw the same thing in Europe, southern Italy was very chaotic roads compared to Northern Italy.

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