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Original Prusa MK4

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Re: Original Prusa MK4

#141

Post by [deleted] »

anamexis wrote: post #87
ferminaut wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own two MK3s+'s. They are solid machines if you are looking to print PLA and some PETG. The stock extruder is a PITA. The MK4's redesigned nozzle/heat break & 10:1 extruder are basically a Bondtech LGX + Revo & should make for a great improvement. The MMU3 seems like a marginal improvement, you still have purge towers & large buffer boxes. Hopefully the reliability out of the box has improved. I wonder if it's too…

It seems like an odd place in Prusa's own product line-up. I have a Prusa MINI+, which for $450 gets you a great printer. The print volume on the MK3 and now MK4 is just not that much better - 180x180x180 for the MINI, 250x210x220 for the MK4. If I wanted to upgrade and wanted to stick with Prusa, MK3/MK4 wouldn't come into the picture, I'd go straight to the Prusa XL.

[deleted]

Re: Original Prusa MK4

#142

Post by Karliss »

newaccount74 wrote: post #57
polishdude20 wrote: post #42

The 70% print time reduction seems like a game changer. Any way to do this with the MK3S?

It says high speed printing will come in a firmware update... Have they released remote printing support for the Prusa mini yet?

The update with wifi support for Prusa mini was released ~3-4 months ago. Or are you referring to something else?

Re: Original Prusa MK4

#143

Post by eropple »

belval wrote: post #137

Could someone explain to me what you get from paying more for a 3D printer like this one instead of a "basic" model? I have a Ender 3 V2 with self-leveling bed (without self-leveling it's not that great) and I use it a lot, enough to justify buying a better $1k+ printer but it's not clear what I get from spending that much money on it. Is it printing speed, better materials, or something else entirely?

In 2023: not a ton. Maybe some better repeatability. You're likely to have fewer out-of-the-box problems; they spend a lot on quality control.

If you're just interested in the hobby, the Elegoo Neptune 3 Pro is, for my money, a fantastic entrypoint that you can get for under $250. (I own the larger version, the Plus, which has a bigger bed and turns the fans off when not printing; it's sub-$350.)

There's also the Sovol SV06 (and its larger Plus variant) in the same ballpark, though they're having some significant QC problems these days. It's also in the $200-$250 range. I have one of these too and it's pretty nice, but I have a first-run one before the QC problems started to rear up.

The Prusa stuff is absolutely better made than the Sovol stuff--though the Elegoo stuff is remarkably high-quality, especially for the price--but frankly it is emphatically not four times better. The delta shrinks further if (and in this crowd, maybe when) you install the Klipper firmware to replace the stock Marlin stuff; Prusa's custom Marlin builds are better than the competition, but Klipper beats it all hollow, and the performance benefits of Klipper on the SV06 and the Neptune 3 Pro/Plus are huge when it comes to faster acceleration and thus faster printing.

Re: Original Prusa MK4

#144

Post by Symbiote »

rhinoceraptor wrote: post #12

These look like very solid improvements over the MK3S+ (I personally have two MK3S+, and use them a lot), and I love their commitment to open hardware and for making upgrade kits available, but it's a bit disappointing to see still how far Prusa is behind truly next-gen printers like the Bambu Lab X1-Carbon.

Personally, I think buying any Chinese product when an alternative exists has become unconscionable.

China's current support of Russia is an obvious issue, as well as their threats towards Taiwan and their destruction of democracy in Hong Kong.

Problems with IP infringement abound, and in this case it's particularly disappointing as Prusa is committed to open source.

I hope Prusa continue to innovate, but I also hope people reject Bambu Lab. Doing so is one of the few direct actions we can take against the Chinese principles that directly oppose Western values.

Re: Original Prusa MK4

#145

Post by BoorishBears »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #138
BoorishBears wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prusa really needs a PR department. Getting your lunch absolutely eaten by some kickstarter printer in near silence, announcing the first few minutes of pre-orders for your already delayed printer will take months, near zero build up to the launch of the MK4... And they won't even let the win from that just sizzle a bit, they need to take all that heat and dump it into the murky depths of Open Source Licensing.

It's a really, really bad look for them recently in my opinion. The Prusa XL has been over a year and a half late. We had to preorder it, plunk down $200 as a deposit... and wait as they redesigned it over and over and blamed part shortages. Now, out of nowhere, "MK4 - Buy Now! No Preorder!"

They added a button to convert your XL preorder to an MK4 order with priority.

So they're alienating people plonking down $1,000 for a printer by letting people from an unrelated queue jump in front of them...

And then shaking the faith of people who already waited this long for the XL. It starts to scream "we won't even be able to make enough XLs and would much rather you just forget about that".

-

Edit: Wow and actually something I didn't even realize, when the MK4 page first went up, there was no lead time...

So that's going to be another awfully sticky situation if enough XL owners actually take them up on that offer. Suddenly new buyers who were told no lead time will end up being bumped further and further back, since there aren't two queues: Printers ship by order date, and XL owners will all have order dates before new buyers.

Re: Original Prusa MK4

#146

Post by eropple »

eYrKEC2 wrote: post #88
ferminaut wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own two MK3s+'s. They are solid machines if you are looking to print PLA and some PETG. The stock extruder is a PITA. The MK4's redesigned nozzle/heat break & 10:1 extruder are basically a Bondtech LGX + Revo & should make for a great improvement. The MMU3 seems like a marginal improvement, you still have purge towers & large buffer boxes. Hopefully the reliability out of the box has improved. I wonder if it's too…

I'm not sure about too little, too late. All the different brands are the flavor of the month ARM SBCs vs raspberry pi -- Prusa may lag in features, but at least I've heard of them, they have a community, and they're not going to disappear tomorrow like something off ali baba.

Voron and Ratrig are not going to "disappear tomorrow".

Bambu--I'm less sanguine about them, to be fair.

The Prusa XL looks tremendous and I'm very interested, but a $1100 bedslinger had better literally make you breakfast to warrant it over a $250 SV06 or Neptune 3 Pro, and the MK4 does not.

Re: Original Prusa MK4

#147

Post by njovin »

belval wrote: post #137

Could someone explain to me what you get from paying more for a 3D printer like this one instead of a "basic" model? I have a Ender 3 V2 with self-leveling bed (without self-leveling it's not that great) and I use it a lot, enough to justify buying a better $1k+ printer but it's not clear what I get from spending that much money on it. Is it printing speed, better materials, or something else entirely?

I'm not an expert but I do own an MK3S+, from what I can tell:

- OOTB ready-to-print is a big one. There's a bit of a learning curve to calibrating everything on the MK3S+. It took me a few days to get mine dialed in and I'm not one of those people that's looking for perfect prints, I just needed it to mostly work. - Touch-screen + wifi + remote printing saves on setup: no SD card needed. I added an OctoPi to mine to achieve similar but that takes some tinkering and the OctoPi performance is spotty. - They're claiming a 70% decrease in print times

Re: Original Prusa MK4

#148

Post by [deleted] »

sydd wrote: post #130
rhinoceraptor wrote: post #12

These look like very solid improvements over the MK3S+ (I personally have two MK3S+, and use them a lot), and I love their commitment to open hardware and for making upgrade kits available, but it's a bit disappointing to see still how far Prusa is behind truly next-gen printers like the Bambu Lab X1-Carbon.

Is it really? I've looked at the Bambu Lab printer and while on paper it looks nice I would be very hesitant to buy it, their "advanced" features not that convincing: - IMO multi material printing has always been a buggy gimmick (mostly multi material setups are very prone to failure). - Them advertising that the printer can print "advanced" materials like PC is a gimmick too, the main issue with FDM printers is laye…

[deleted]

Re: Original Prusa MK4

#149

Post by eropple »

sydd wrote: post #130
rhinoceraptor wrote: post #12

These look like very solid improvements over the MK3S+ (I personally have two MK3S+, and use them a lot), and I love their commitment to open hardware and for making upgrade kits available, but it's a bit disappointing to see still how far Prusa is behind truly next-gen printers like the Bambu Lab X1-Carbon.

Is it really? I've looked at the Bambu Lab printer and while on paper it looks nice I would be very hesitant to buy it, their "advanced" features not that convincing: - IMO multi material printing has always been a buggy gimmick (mostly multi material setups are very prone to failure). - Them advertising that the printer can print "advanced" materials like PC is a gimmick too, the main issue with FDM printers is laye…

> - IMO multi material printing has always been a buggy gimmick (mostly multi material setups are very prone to failure).

Agreed, with the asterisk that this applies more to multi-feeders (Prusa's MMU, Bambu's AMS) rather than IDEX. Which is where Prusa's going with the XL, and I'm excited about it.

> - Them advertising that the printer can print "advanced" materials like PC is a gimmick too, the main issue with FDM printers is layer adhesion and no matter what material you are using its going to suck compared to injection molding.

Flag on the play: sweeping generalization, ten yard penalty, repeat second down.

PC printing is really handy for intrinsically bespoke things like tools in the wood shop. I don't need an injection-molded run of them--but nobody's selling things I can buy that address problems in the way I want to.

> - bashing bed slingers is wrong too, they have their advantages compared to CoreXY setups (mostly simpler mechanics)

This is an effectively solved problem with modern motion system controls. CoreXY on Marlin might be a mess, but CoreXY on Klipper is clean. Aside from cost of development and manufacture, I don't understand developing new bedslingers except for cost...and the MK4 costs $1100.

Re: Original Prusa MK4

#150

Post by dia80 »

golem14 wrote: post #139
asveikau wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your loss! This reminds me of an attitude I see in some of these hobby communities. The idea that someone who is happy with a different product is somehow wrong or losing. People are highly invested and identified with their choices. Why not just be ok with choices other people make, even if we disagree with them?

Always been that way. Ask any Atari ST user about Amiga and vice versa.

What's that little box for? A foot warmer?
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