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Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

congress.gov

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Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#141

Post by poulsbohemian »

charlieflowers wrote: post #81
kirse wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actual #1. TikTok is banned in China, but in their similar app (Douyin) their kids are limited to 40min a day and restricted from a lot of the digital opium drip that US kids are receiving in infinite quantities. Sounds like it'd only be fair to follow suit if China itself is limiting the poisoning of their own citizens: https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/2023/03/24/douyin-tiktok...

It is mind boggling, and at the same time not surprising at all, that China is enforcing a humane policy to protect its children when we are not willing to do the same.

>It is mind boggling, and at the same time not surprising at all, that China is enforcing a humane policy to protect its children when we are not willing to do the same.

By whose standards? The United States has never been an ideologically cohesive nation outside some basic principles of representative democracy - and even those have been challenged at moments in our history. The moment you get beyond the basics of a unified military, postal service, weights and measures, and currency, you quickly get into the social issues that have plagued our cohesion since the founding of the nation. Is Uncle Tom's Cabin a seminal work in understanding US history, or subversive and dangerous? We can't even decide that as a nation at the moment, so "how much social media is good for our kids?" would be a very, very ugly discussion to have at a national level.

I don't have Tik Tok installed, my kids only get the "reruns" off YouTube, but frankly I find it a bit extremist that the US government wants to ban an app that looks to me like people doing funny dances in their living rooms.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#142

Post by poulsbohemian »

paxys wrote: post #35
charlieflowers wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real concerns, in order of importance, are: 1. This is a way of getting memes to the masses that we (the US political establishment) can't fully control. 2. Meta and others are getting their asses kicked revenue-wise by Tik Tok. Like any business, they'd use anything they could to fight back. Turns out they can use China fear mongering, so they are. 3. (Added) Believe it or not, there's nationalistic pride here.…

You are overestimating how much of a concern 2 is for lawmakers. Meta getting its ass kicked is a happy bonus for both political parties.

>Meta getting its ass kicked is a happy bonus for both political parties.

Frankly, it should get this treatment. Its executives have been consistently hostile toward government inquiries and in public statements about its users. The hubris it has shown in its treatment on political speech and disdain for paid advertisers is revolting. The stock structure of the company is a physical manifestation of everything wrong - we can treat the public and the law with disdain and you can't touch us.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#143

Post by bioemerl »

abeppu wrote: post #62

What I don't get is why we didn't pursue something in the WTO years ago. China doesn't allow FB, Insta, Twitter, etc to operate in its market, but its companies can provide such a service to US customers? Is that not protectionism? If we're afraid that China will use TikTok to push their propaganda in the US, we should be appropriately concerned that banning a platform to stop targeted speech is in conflict with our…

Because the WTO was and is a joke.

They'd have sided with China who on their official books says "they can come back they just have to follow our laws", while in practice continuing to ban and restrict these companies regardless.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#144

Post by alexfromapex »

than3 wrote: post #137
humanistbot wrote: post #3

If the concern is privacy and security, which apply to all social media platforms, then why not pass actual privacy and security laws that would apply equally to all social media platforms, regardless of who currently owns it or may own it in the future?

The concern is subversion and malign influence, which is a very real problem. USMC University has a book on political warfare that covers the topic fairly. The politicians don't want to touch privacy or security laws since that would negatively impact their benefactors as opposed to actually doing their jobs for their constituents. Its a power grab, hopefully it won't get passed because of the loose undefined wording…

Tencent also has a very large stake in Reddit, I wonder if there's any plan to investigate influence operations there.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#145

Post by beezle »

than3 wrote: post #137
humanistbot wrote: post #3

If the concern is privacy and security, which apply to all social media platforms, then why not pass actual privacy and security laws that would apply equally to all social media platforms, regardless of who currently owns it or may own it in the future?

The concern is subversion and malign influence, which is a very real problem. USMC University has a book on political warfare that covers the topic fairly. The politicians don't want to touch privacy or security laws since that would negatively impact their benefactors as opposed to actually doing their jobs for their constituents. Its a power grab, hopefully it won't get passed because of the loose undefined wording…

Yes but Twitter and Facebook have already been used for that purpose and continue to be used in that manner.

I get that it is not appropriate on government phones in case they manage to leverage a zeroday but for the average Joe I'm not seeing the risk of TikTok being any greater than the rest of the social media world - the same info is shared/available.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#146

Post by [deleted] »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #141
charlieflowers wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is mind boggling, and at the same time not surprising at all, that China is enforcing a humane policy to protect its children when we are not willing to do the same.

>It is mind boggling, and at the same time not surprising at all, that China is enforcing a humane policy to protect its children when we are not willing to do the same. By whose standards? The United States has never been an ideologically cohesive nation outside some basic principles of representative democracy - and even those have been challenged at moments in our history. The moment you get beyond the basics of a…

[deleted]

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#147

Post by alexfromapex »

charlieflowers wrote: post #20
gretch wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what the concern of the bill is and it's completely transparent. Just read the first 2 pages of the bill and you can see the concern is, in the words of the bill, a "foreign adversary" and their ability to "sabotage or subversion of the design, integrity, manufacturing, production, distribution, installation, operation, or maintenance of information and communications technology products and services in th…

The real concerns, in order of importance, are: 1. This is a way of getting memes to the masses that we (the US political establishment) can't fully control. 2. Meta and others are getting their asses kicked revenue-wise by Tik Tok. Like any business, they'd use anything they could to fight back. Turns out they can use China fear mongering, so they are. 3. (Added) Believe it or not, there's nationalistic pride here.…

I think you're conflating the reasoning of the ban to be against Asians, when in fact it's purely against China. Japanese car manufacturers have done absolutely nothing wrong.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#148

Post by localplume »

spiderice wrote: post #48
sct202 wrote: post #36

I'm fine if TikTok gets banned, but I feel like Facebook and all the other social media incumbents owe Americans a bunch of money for their biggest competition being banned.

> I'm fine if TikTok gets banned How are so many people (especially on HN) fine with this? Haven't we criticized "The Great Firewall of China" for literally decades? How is this not the start of that? Genuine question. This ban seems to set horrible precedent to me. Bet everyones "coolness" with it makes me think I'm not understanding something.

because some people understand geopolitics and the threat of foreign propaganda undermining the nations security?

but sure, lets not ban it. lets not stop any foreign interference in our institutions and lets let our adversaries brain wash our population into destroying our country, but as long as we feel righteous that we have freedom right? thats all that matters?

every time someone brings up a whataboutism as a rebuttle to that, "what about american social media companies?? they are much worse", they are doing exactly what China wants. China will gladly sit by and watch our destruction, prodding it along, as we eat each other. Most people are just oblivious to it and will deny it because of how much peace we've had, and how far we've gone without a near-peer enemy. at least with this bill we can stop the bleed.

I was once a diehard defender of digital privacy and a small government, but over time I realized that the world really is not peaceful and countries exist out there that want to see our people dead. I understand it, I get it. But so many people are oblivious to foreign threats that they are willing to undermine their own country just so they can be on their high horse. It's not worth it.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#149

Post by AustinDev »

tzs wrote: post #71

What happens when one or both of these happen: 1. Apple adds easy support for non-Apple app stores and side-loading to iOS to comply with the recent EU regulations that require opening things up in 2024, and then people can download TikTok from outside the US and install it? 2. TikTok users switch to using the TikTok website instead of the app? It looks like the main thing the app gives you that the website can't is…

The language on what constitutes a violation is vague, but it does appear you could face hefty fines and jail time for this behavior under the current draft of the act.

"Hence anyone using a VPN to access TikTok would be in trouble—specifically, subject to up to $1 million in fines, 20 years in prison, or both."[1]

[1]https://reason.com/2023/03/29/could-the-restrict-act-crimina...

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#150

Post by kube-system »

florbnit wrote: post #136
HDThoreaun wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that tiktok told congress that US data was inaccessible in China but there is evidence of Chinese nationals accessing american journalist's data in China. Also I'm sure big tech lobbying is playing a large role here too, but that's the cover story at least.

Do you have a link or reference to that evidence?

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/dec/22/tiktok-by...

"TikTok spy journalist" returns a lot of results in your favorite search engine

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