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I Wasn't Paid

iwasntpaid.com

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Re: I Wasn't Paid

#141

Post by ilaksh »

minus1 wrote: post #90
patio11 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to perform (for lack of a better word) a mitzvah for the community, rather than picking out a single abusive customer, use your experience and teach people how to pattern match. Memo to young Rails developers: "I have an idea for a website. If you build v1.0 I'll pay you a whole thousand dollars and you might get equity if it works very well." has never had a happy ending. (Slight overstatement there, but…

Here's my mitzvah: Don't do work for individuals or very small companies. People are much more reasonable when your fee isn't coming out of their pocket.

I would love to stop doing work for small companies or individuals. But how do I get bigger clients? I really don't know how.

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#142

Post by marcomonteiro »

edw519 wrote: post #69
patio11 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to perform (for lack of a better word) a mitzvah for the community, rather than picking out a single abusive customer, use your experience and teach people how to pattern match. Memo to young Rails developers: "I have an idea for a website. If you build v1.0 I'll pay you a whole thousand dollars and you might get equity if it works very well." has never had a happy ending. (Slight overstatement there, but…

"I have an idea for a website. If you build v1.0 I'll pay you a whole thousand dollars and you might get equity if it works very well." If only all the assholes were so easily self-identifying. The real problems are the charming, smooth talking, dream clients offering cool projects, top dollar, and paying on time...until they don't and decide to start making your life hell because you're in so deep already. They're n…

"The real problems are the charming, smooth talking, dream clients offering cool projects, top dollar, and paying on time...until they don't and decide to start making your life hell because you're in so deep already. They're no dummies."

I can completely relate. If only there were a place to keep track of clients and their payment history. Glassdoor meets credit reporting. Clients with no history get charged more and require a higher deposit.

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#143

Post by anthonyb »

knewter wrote: post #119
edw519 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I have an idea for a website. If you build v1.0 I'll pay you a whole thousand dollars and you might get equity if it works very well." If only all the assholes were so easily self-identifying. The real problems are the charming, smooth talking, dream clients offering cool projects, top dollar, and paying on time...until they don't and decide to start making your life hell because you're in so deep already. They're n…

We invoice weekly. Depending on our terms with the client, if they aren't paying on time we stop work. This results in at-most 2 weeks of unpaid work, and typically they have a lot invested in seeing it through to completion because already have (largeish-n)% of their money. We also send emails EVERY TIME a work unit is created in xrono (our open source app-to-run-a-software-consultancy) showing both the current work…

I refer to this as a "cash leash", and it's a very good idea, particularly in the early days before you can hire lawyers to create contracts and write letters to non-payers.

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#144

Post by rmc »

daeken wrote: post #108
edw519 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I have an idea for a website. If you build v1.0 I'll pay you a whole thousand dollars and you might get equity if it works very well." If only all the assholes were so easily self-identifying. The real problems are the charming, smooth talking, dream clients offering cool projects, top dollar, and paying on time...until they don't and decide to start making your life hell because you're in so deep already. They're n…

Agreed. I had a project a couple years ago, just like this. Everything started off fine -- solid contract, good communication, etc. Payment was solid for the first few months, then it stopped. I was accused of putting together templates with no functionality behind them, and they demanded their money back. When I informed them where they could put their demands, so to speak, they threatened litigation. I had done the…

In retrospect, there were a few warning signs fairly early on

Care to elaborate to teach the communtity?

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#145

Post by jacques_chester »

gee_totes wrote: post #137

I was involved in the case involving Carlos 'Storm' Martinez, who is an amazing post sound mixer and a stand-up guy. I am a little perturbed to see him mentioned on the site. The design of the site in question was good, no doubt, but it was also riddled with a stolen Neutraface2 font face and the HTML didn't validate. And there was no RoR backend; the whole site was hosted on a GoDaddy shared server. From my understa…

The ex-law student in me smells the sweet golden smell of defamation in the air.

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#146

Post by jacques_chester »

tsotha wrote: post #133
gavingmiller wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stipulate in your contract that the losing side has to pay the legal fees for the other party. That way getting paid doesn't cost you more.

I used to work for a company that put a late-payment clause right in the contract. If you didn't pay us you were on the hook for a fee plus interest on the outstanding balance. So essentially it was like owing money to the IRS. As far as I know nobody ever gave us trouble about payment.

> I used to work for a company that put a late-payment clause right in the contract. If you didn't pay us you were on the hook for a fee plus interest on the outstanding balance.

This is so common in the business world -- terms -- that there's a short hand minilanguage for describing your terms on invoices, purchase orders and contracts.

Here's a decent list: http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=10...

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#147

Post by jacques_chester »

benjohnson wrote: post #81

My Dad had a folder labeled 'Deadbeats' at this small consulting firm. It was in the conference room - anybody was free to look at it. In the field he was in, word got around quickly so there was a few tardy clients that paid but stipulated that he remove their transgressions from the 'Deadbeats' folder.

Sounds like he also needed a "Deadbeats Who Eventually Paid Up" folder as well.

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#148

Post by rmc »

shabble wrote: post #101
crag wrote: post #53

One dangerous thing that stands out is this "kill switch". VERY bad idea. Now you are liable for damages. The way to handle this is: When you get the judgement against your "client", slap a lean on his properties equal to the amount owed (and throw in your court costs). That inclues his accounts. All you need is an order from the judge. That's it. That's about all you can do really. Is to go after his assets. Also I'…

I wonder if it's legal to state upfront in your contract that 'technical measures' are implemented in your work to prevent theft of service (or whatever you call the use of the work product without payment), and are to be deactivated & removed following completion/final payment? The software licence-key approach seems somewhat similar, and I've yet to come across legal proceedings "because we didn't pay the guy and o…

Reminds me of the talk "Fuck you, pay me", where they talk about how the client only gets copyright assignment upon reciept of final payment. Thus, if they stop/don't pay, then they do not have copyright on the work, and hence are guilty of copyright infringement if they use it.

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#149

Post by zecho »

daeken wrote: post #108
edw519 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I have an idea for a website. If you build v1.0 I'll pay you a whole thousand dollars and you might get equity if it works very well." If only all the assholes were so easily self-identifying. The real problems are the charming, smooth talking, dream clients offering cool projects, top dollar, and paying on time...until they don't and decide to start making your life hell because you're in so deep already. They're n…

Agreed. I had a project a couple years ago, just like this. Everything started off fine -- solid contract, good communication, etc. Payment was solid for the first few months, then it stopped. I was accused of putting together templates with no functionality behind them, and they demanded their money back. When I informed them where they could put their demands, so to speak, they threatened litigation. I had done the…

How much are we talking here? Many states have to be above $5 to 7.5 thousand to get lawyers involved out of small claims court. Also, many lawyers will do brief consultations on your case without charging you.

For future reference, don't back down when threatened with litigation. If it's actually a bullshit claim, they'll either settle out of court (on their own lawyer's recommendation) or they'll end up paying your lawyer for you when you win your case.

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#150

Post by readme »

guelo wrote: post #130
patio11 wrote: post #57

This is not a way forward. 1). Work with better clients. You can have invoice collection problems at $50k, too, but they're much less likely than at $500 and you have much better options for... escalation methods at that point. 2). If you're not a bank, stop taking on so much credit risk. Businesses can deal with substantially sterner payment terms than you'd think to offer. If your clients balk, see #1. (Thomas has…

Sounds like you're threatening to put me on iamachumpconsultant.com while discouraging me from putting you on iwasntpaid.com. Just like corporations can ruin consumers' credit ratings almost without recourse, the concept here is to ruin these delinquent payer's reputation via a registry everyone can check.

The problem is that everything on this website is absolute heresay. We have no way of knowing whether someone is posting truth or lies.
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