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SVB in talks to sell itself after attempts to raise capital fail

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Re: SVB in talks to sell itself after attempts to raise capital fail

#141
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same Sequoia who bet the farm on FTX? I'll sit tight and wait for the FDIC. They have ample authority to do an orderly liquidation in a worst case scenario.

Well if a startup just closed a $20MM round they'll get back $250,000 after a long unwinding from the FDIC. So that's a pretty big haircut. I look to Sequoia because, of any VC fund, they are the most likely to be able to pull off a takeover of SVB. I am still gobsmacked that they invested hundreds of millions in a company with no board or CFO (FTX)

That's not remotely true, for a couple reasons.

1) FDIC insurance only applies in situations where the bank doesn't have the assets to make depositors whole. SVB has a ton of assets; most sources I've found asserting 100% deposit coverage, just not liquid. Even if the FDIC takes over (which isn't even likely) (edit: this aged well), the insurance element is irrelevant; its about operations and finding funding to drive liquidity.

2) When startups close a round of funding, they don't just get a check for $20M and throw it in their SVB account. Funding rounds are an agreement between the VC firm and the startup for that money, which transitively represents an agreement between the VC firm and its partners, and the money is generally delivered "just in time", not all at once. When the startup needs an infusion, they go to the VC, who then goes to their own bank accounts or their partners, who then go to their own bank accounts, and wire transfers happen. SVB is only one player here; yeah, its absolutely true that many startups (maybe most) directly use SVB, but its less common the further up the chain you move as the money gets more and more boring (when you hear "partner" think "old boring local business magnate who has banked with JP Morgan for 50 years"). And more-over short of systemic bankruptcy the VCs are still on the hook for that $20M.

The risk that SVB, the financial industry, and regulators are worried about right now is short-term liquidity. Startups may have $xxx,000 in their SVB account which they use to make payroll every two weeks and pay vendors and such, which is separate from the $xxM on contract with the VC. If SVB can't meet outflow demands, the people staying and trying to make payroll are going to get caught up with the panic'ed people trying to pull all their money out, and short-term liabilities like payroll are at risk. That's part of of the reason why some VCs are pushing their startups to pull money out; its not about "oh my god we're going to lose all our money", its because they don't want to get caught in the herd and be forced to pull money from other sources which are also less liquid, like long-term investments or going to their partners. Put another way, SVB's liquidity issues could spiral to cause liquidity issues further down the chain; and no one in the industry wants that to happen.

But, its a macroeconomic prisoners dilemma. And, to be frank, and I mean this absolutely genuinely and sincerely; most VCs are just rich idiots. Lets be real, the industry is proud of the fact that if one bet in fifty pays out 100x it'll make up for 49 bad bets, yet we treat them as paragons of investing genius? Their biggest motivation is to avoid embarrassment among their drinking buddies (read: investing partners) during the next trip to Jackson.

Re: SVB in talks to sell itself after attempts to raise capital fail

#142
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't count how many times I've read similar comments on HN in the last 10yrs

I hate comments like this. Bad things just don't happen anymore just because the last 10 years of doomsday predictions turned out to be wrong?

Bad things can happen but they’re more likely to be predicted accurately when someone puts up some data. But most of these doomsayers are just working from vibes. “It feels like”. They’re unhelpful comments.

Re: SVB in talks to sell itself after attempts to raise capital fail

#143
post #130

One thing to bear in mind is that "failing" is not binary. The story seems to be that SV put all their deposits into 10 y bonds in 2021. I'll use that as an approximation. A 10Y bond will usually move about 8x as much as the underlying interest rate (it's called "duration"). So if SVB did nothing but buy these bonds and sit on them, then they would have lost about 36% on these (8 x 4.5% rate movement). That's a lot b…

> My finger in the air haircut would thus be maybe 15-20% loss of deposits, if this simplified model has anything to do with reality. That's a lot but also means depositors get 80-85% of their money back. Depositors have been getting 100% of their money back. [and will still do if they are quick (or has the bankruptcy been declared already?) - edited: too late!] The loss - that is an amount measured in dollars, not a…

Bingo!

If 70% of depositors exit (which actually seems possible) the bank does not have adequate assets for the remaining depositors and the bank fails.

Re: SVB in talks to sell itself after attempts to raise capital fail

#144

In hindsight they shouldn't have bought those MBSs, should have foreseen the coming inflation and the following interest rate hikes, and of course shouldn't have said those words yesterday. However, sad to see what looks to be another government caused implosion. - First, via the massive government stimulus COVID19 SVB got enormous amount of deposits in 2020/2021. They have to put that money to work, and the traditio…

SVB wouldn’t have these issues if they monitored the risk better. If they put the money in short term govt bonds they would be fine. Or if they kept the rates they paid on deposits low to discourage the excess, they would also be fine.

Banks are in the business to manage risk.

The sad part is this risk management and investment process is concentrated in a very small group. Most of the bank employees are very good, had no idea what was happening, and some will lose their jobs as their equity goes to zero.

Re: SVB in talks to sell itself after attempts to raise capital fail

#145

In hindsight they shouldn't have bought those MBSs, should have foreseen the coming inflation and the following interest rate hikes, and of course shouldn't have said those words yesterday. However, sad to see what looks to be another government caused implosion. - First, via the massive government stimulus COVID19 SVB got enormous amount of deposits in 2020/2021. They have to put that money to work, and the traditio…

The Fed gave plenty of warning that they would raise rates. Preventing 10% unemployment was absolutely worth the covid helicopter money. SVB is obviously incompetent just from seeing how they've handled the last couple days and should've realized that their long term bonds would get blown up in the post pandemic monetary environment.

Re: SVB in talks to sell itself after attempts to raise capital fail

#146
Startups with good VC and investor relationships will most likely make payroll and pay bills through short term loans from the investors until they can access their funds.

But it is a good lesson in money management…something about eggs and just one basket?

Re: SVB in talks to sell itself after attempts to raise capital fail

#147
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People will point to duration mismatch but Fed raised too fast without proper warnings.

Inflation is still 6% YoY. Fed hasn't raised fast enough and is looking at +.50% next meeting.

There's ample reason to believe that the Fed delayed starting its current rate hike process due to political reasons; Chair Powell wanted to be re-appointed and felt that no chair who championed rate hikes back in 2021, which is when it should have started, stood a chance.

Re: SVB in talks to sell itself after attempts to raise capital fail

#148

One thing to bear in mind is that "failing" is not binary. The story seems to be that SV put all their deposits into 10 y bonds in 2021. I'll use that as an approximation. A 10Y bond will usually move about 8x as much as the underlying interest rate (it's called "duration"). So if SVB did nothing but buy these bonds and sit on them, then they would have lost about 36% on these (8 x 4.5% rate movement). That's a lot b…

> That's a lot but also means depositors get 80-85% of their money back

That's not what happens. Let's say 100 clients each deposited $1 in the bank, and the bank loses $20, so only has $80 to pay out when liquidated.

Let's say half (50) depositors withdraw their funds early, they each get $1 back. So now the bank has $30 in assets and has to pay 50 people. Suppose 20 people demand withdrawals, and the bank pays $20 to them. Now the bank has $10 and has to pay 30 people.

I admit that I don't know when/whether a bank can actually refuse withdrawals in such situations, or when bankruptcy proceedings are triggered, but the earlier you withdraw the less likely you're going to lose money, and the later you withdraw the more likely you'll lose a significant part of your deposits.

Sure your calculus still works out on average, but I'm not sure that means anything and it's no consolation for the ones that reacted last.

Re: SVB in talks to sell itself after attempts to raise capital fail

#149
post #137

The FDIC / Fed are currently on-site working on SVB resolution.

The fed will take over all of these assets and shutdown the bank and make a profit doing so.

The fed has a huge advantage in that they can just print money, buy assets that deliver 1% returns and when those assets mature delete the printed money. The fed is basically leveraged to infinity.

Re: SVB in talks to sell itself after attempts to raise capital fail

#150

In hindsight they shouldn't have bought those MBSs, should have foreseen the coming inflation and the following interest rate hikes, and of course shouldn't have said those words yesterday. However, sad to see what looks to be another government caused implosion. - First, via the massive government stimulus COVID19 SVB got enormous amount of deposits in 2020/2021. They have to put that money to work, and the traditio…

> should have foreseen the coming inflation and the following interest rate hikes

That's putting it lightly. Powell has been saying over and over again "more inflation, more rate hikes." Even giving us approximately how many they are planning on doing in a given timeline. I don't understand why so many people think it's a good idea to prepare for the opposite of what the government is literally telling us it's going to do. That does not seem like a smart bet, but maybe that's just me.

You can blame the government for some stuff but at some point companies have to own the decisions they make in the face of not just evidence, but also clear statements, that run counter to how they are operating. SVB made their bed in a large way here.

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