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U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fleet, buying 9,250 EVs

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Re: U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fleet, buying 9,250 EVs

#141

Post by manquer »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #91
psychlops wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nation should subsidize package delivery to remote locations? I'm sure there is a good reason why, but I can't think of an example. I can only hope their lack of profit motivation will make them stop taking money from bulk mailers.

Because there are people doing things out there that are valuable to us, but we don't pay them enough to do those things that they could dream of paying the full cost of mail delivery.

Shouldn’t we be instead paying them the fair value of their labor rather than this and let them choose how to spend that money ?

We tried subsidizing rural broadband for last 3 decades with 100s of billions of dollars with little to show for it , Starlink on the other hand is able to solve it with purely commercial enterprise not withstanding the small rural subsidy they got.

Maybe it is better for the market to decide ? If the market does not value the important things rural economy produces and is absolutely important then they either start valuing them correctly and pay for it or we can stop producing them ?

Government subsidy always creates inefficiencies and is slow to adapt to change . It is acceptable trade off in some areas like defense, police, healthcare, insurance, or foundational research where for profit enterprise is not viable but package delivery is hardly one of them.

Re: U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fleet, buying 9,250 EVs

#142

Post by manquer »

Dalewyn wrote: post #104
scarface74 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, who needs farmers. Food is so overrated.

Also loggers, quarrymen, miners, hunters, fishermen... Naw, clearly the world is a metropolis measured in tens of square miles large with fiber internet, supermarkets that spawn stuff on shelves, and electricity dyed green.

wouldn’t the market pay the actual value for all the essential things you mentioned if subsidy is not there and rural cost of living goes up significantly?

Instead of of subsidizing, we would merely pay for what we consume isn’t that a better deal ? Both you and the farmer get to choose how the money is being spent ?

Re: U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fleet, buying 9,250 EVs

#143

Post by viraptor »

glenngillen wrote: post #140
mastax wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain how the tricycles work, practically? Auspost delivers parcels, correct? That tricycle looks like it could fit about one days worth of package deliveries for my street. Then it would need to go back to the post office. Unless the post offices are very close together that seems really inefficient. Also, since Australia was not built in the 10th century, you can fit normal sized cars most everywhere, n…

It’s largely filled with letters and maybe small packages (e.g., my coffee subscription). Anything larger than a large book seems to still be delivered by someone driving a van. The trikes roam the streets going door to door, the vans operate more like a courier service.

That, and also the post offices in towns are pretty close. In my area that means there's 4 of them, around 1km apart. Covering probably 20k people in the town itself + another 10k in the general area.

Re: U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fleet, buying 9,250 EVs

#144

Post by barrysteve »

mastax wrote: post #134
viraptor wrote: post #13

For comparison, Australia Post went with mostly 3-wheel electric bikes for local deliveries (3100 out of 4100 EVs in the fleet mid 2022). https://auspost.com.au/our-stories/inspiring-stories/sustain... there's a photo in the link. The low noise compared to the previous powered bikes is really nice.

Could you explain how the tricycles work, practically? Auspost delivers parcels, correct? That tricycle looks like it could fit about one days worth of package deliveries for my street. Then it would need to go back to the post office. Unless the post offices are very close together that seems really inefficient. Also, since Australia was not built in the 10th century, you can fit normal sized cars most everywhere, n…

The e-trikes replaced old motorcycles with saddlebags. The trike rides up onto the footpath and delivers directly into the mailbox. Usually letters and catalogues. They hop from letterbox to letterbox along the road and footpath. They are coloured fluroscent yellow, same association as high visibility shirts.

Packages are done by courier in a van or truck. Grocery deliveries are done by supermarket branded refrigerator trucks. Local fast food is done by the ubereats/menulog crowd.

A local automotive store will drop off parts by an employee in his car.

It sounds like americans get more packages delivered in one go, by the us postal office trucks?

Re: U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fleet, buying 9,250 EVs

#145

Post by mojoe »

viraptor wrote: post #116
nonethewiser wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like it’s really only suited for cities. That’s not where the challenge is.

Why only for cities? There's quite a few of them in the local small towns which were previously handled on pushbikes and small motor bikes. There's lots of challenges with mail delivery depending on the area, density, business/residential ratio, and many other things. Those vehicles satisfy some situation. "the challenge" is not a thing.

I think what parent is saying is that in the US a disproportionate percentage of USPS budget is spent delivering mail to extremely rural areas (far from both cities and small towns).

Re: U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fleet, buying 9,250 EVs

#147

Post by Daltzn »

justanother wrote: post #48

Most American humans and pets know the distinctive sound of an LLV trolling around the block delivering the mail. EVs are Ninja-like by comparison. I'm not suggesting this is a bad thing, but it's gonna be a different world.

I had this thought recently too. I was wondering how a USPS vehicle being nearly silent could impact elderly who know the sound of the vehicle to know when mail has arrived. It could result in elderly making additional trips to the mailbox increasing their risk for injury in the event of bad weather. Or could they miss getting their medication because they do not think mail was delivered. Where I live mail is not always delivered on the same time even weekly. Without hearing the distinct sound of the mail truck barreling down the road I would probably have to check the mailbox more than once a day.

Re: U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fleet, buying 9,250 EVs

#148

Post by aidenn0 »

barrysteve wrote: post #144
mastax wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain how the tricycles work, practically? Auspost delivers parcels, correct? That tricycle looks like it could fit about one days worth of package deliveries for my street. Then it would need to go back to the post office. Unless the post offices are very close together that seems really inefficient. Also, since Australia was not built in the 10th century, you can fit normal sized cars most everywhere, n…

The e-trikes replaced old motorcycles with saddlebags. The trike rides up onto the footpath and delivers directly into the mailbox. Usually letters and catalogues. They hop from letterbox to letterbox along the road and footpath. They are coloured fluroscent yellow, same association as high visibility shirts. Packages are done by courier in a van or truck. Grocery deliveries are done by supermarket branded refrigerat…

Yes. Congress required the USPS to be profitable, and then required it to up-front fund its pensions, and then capped the rate they can charge for first-class mail. This created incentives for them to deliver more parcels. One service they offer is "last-mile" service for private parcel carriers; so e.g. FedEx will get it to your city and USPS will deliver to your house. A significant fraction of packages ordered through amazon will arrive via a postal carrier where I am.

Re: U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fleet, buying 9,250 EVs

#149

Post by jjeaff »

mulmen wrote: post #78
bobthepanda wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economics of long haul trucking make electrification hard. Fortunately, for local deliveries like the post office, constant stop-and-go means that regen braking can really stretch the range of electric batteries.

Regen braking plus zero-cost idle. Electric is at a clear advantage for local delivery.

Most gas delivery vehicles don't idle these days. But maybe the starter motor requires more maintenance.

Re: U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fleet, buying 9,250 EVs

#150

Post by scarface74 »

manquer wrote: post #142
Dalewyn wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also loggers, quarrymen, miners, hunters, fishermen... Naw, clearly the world is a metropolis measured in tens of square miles large with fiber internet, supermarkets that spawn stuff on shelves, and electricity dyed green.

wouldn’t the market pay the actual value for all the essential things you mentioned if subsidy is not there and rural cost of living goes up significantly? Instead of of subsidizing, we would merely pay for what we consume isn’t that a better deal ? Both you and the farmer get to choose how the money is being spent ?

No,

Farming is heavily subsidized worldwide. If the US stopped subsidizing farming unilaterally, it would decimate (for the pedants yes I know decimate means decline by 10%) US farming.

Are you saying that we should depend on other countries for food? You think our chip dependency leaves us vulnerable…

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