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Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

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Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#141

Post by VirusNewbie »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #77
brandon272 wrote: post #54

No one knows what the future holds, but as the dust settles on WFH, I think that FAANG will double down on in-office and use their leverage as desirable large market cap companies with lucrative total comp packages to selectively seek out and retain those who are willing to agree to an in-office or hybrid work environment. They have identified in-person collaboration as a key competitive advantage going forward, want…

All it takes is 1 faang to say screw it you can wfh, then they have the recruiting advantage over the old dinosaur style businesses.

Netflix is remote for everyone, but they already had the highest comp. They hire significantly less than other faangs though.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#142

Post by Pet_Ant »

shmatt wrote: post #28

The thing is, this becomes theater of working. Imagine commuting to the office 60-90 minutes each direction just to sit in a stuffy room and zoom Want to talk collaboration and productivity? Let's see if a company bans zoom for office days (but none will) And im not even going to start on the complete waste of time of people in an open space talking non stop about their fantasy football draft. I haven't heard those w…

> Want to talk collaboration and productivity? Let's see if a company bans zoom for office days

I like this idea. It supports the ostensible goal and removes a real annoyance. If I have to come then I sure has hell shouldn't have to be on a call.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#144

Post by Brystephor »

ptkanchi wrote: post #125

Let me preface this by saying I don't have much of an opinion for or against RTO, but I feel like there's too much emotion attached to companies mandating RTO by tech employees. I'm at a company that is mandating RTO and for the past couple months there has been tons of whining and moaning in public slack channels, team Q&As, company wide Q&As, HR Q&As, being passive aggressive etc. All this behavior has reeked of im…

I understand what you're saying about entitlement. It can be tiresome to hear the same topics brought up repeatedly. With the constant negativity that surrounds it, it gets exhausting to listen to.

At the same time, most of those complaints are coming from generally reasonable people. If a company promised no RTO and then went back on it, that'd be frustrating for them. If a company can't state why they want to go RTO, then I'd be frustrated with needing to change my life for the reason of "because I said so". If the company has grown a significant amount and been able to manage the growth and whatnot while working remotely, then it also brings up the question of "why is there a RTO mandate?" I think more people are frustrated with the lack of reasoning and justification beyond some hand-wavey "collaboration" answer that companies are giving.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#145

Post by utexaspunk »

jonas21 wrote: post #51
shmatt wrote: post #28

The thing is, this becomes theater of working. Imagine commuting to the office 60-90 minutes each direction just to sit in a stuffy room and zoom Want to talk collaboration and productivity? Let's see if a company bans zoom for office days (but none will) And im not even going to start on the complete waste of time of people in an open space talking non stop about their fantasy football draft. I haven't heard those w…

> just to sit in a stuffy room and zoom Presumably, that's what the return to office plan is trying to fix. Right now, if you go into the office, you're spending a lot of time in zoom calls because half the people in every meeting aren't there. If everyone's in the office, you can just meet in person.

My company mandated everyone back in the office but everyone still meets via Teams, even when we have offices next door to each other. Making people come is just dumb. Imagine the environmental benefits, traffic reduction and inflation hedge that would result from outlawing return-to-office mandates for jobs that can be performed remotely. Of course, that will never happen because commercial real estate would tank.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#146

Post by npalli »

Amazon has over 1.4 Million employees. Looking at this article, 14,000 joined a slack channel to complain. So only about 1% is pushing Andy Jassy about this. Should we assume the remainder (~99%) is OK? If so, this is yet another instance of a small group of people strategically using regular/social media to amplify a minority position which the majority doesn't support.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#147

Post by ipaddr »

twblalock wrote: post #121
alright_scowl wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smaller salary to be able to live in much cheaper cities where your general quality of life will also be massively improved? Sounds like a win-win to me. Especially considering that the decrease in cost of living probably far surpasses de decrease in salary.

If you do the math that doesn't always work out. The main thing that is cheaper in cheaper cities is housing. Most of the other stuff people buy costs the same everywhere. If you move to a cheaper place and have a lower income, your non-housing expenses will become a larger portion of your spending. Once you've worked in tech for several years in the Bay Area or Seattle you will generally be well off enough to buy a…

You pay more for many products and services in cities but have more choice. You are also taxed at a lower rate, qualify for different rebates.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#148

Post by potatolicious »

darth_avocado wrote: post #127
potatolicious wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Want to talk collaboration and productivity? Let's see if a company bans zoom for office days (but none will)" This wouldn't even be practicable - pretty much every BigTech company has offices spread all over the country, if not the world, and the odds are you work day-to-day with someone who sits nowhere near you. If you are forced to come in and you weren't allowed teleconferencing, you'd literally get nothing d…

So you’re saying, being remote is okay as long as that remote in another office?

Hah, that does seem to be what the companies are saying, which is entirely silly.

My personal take is that RTO mandates are sorely misguided. Let the people who want an office work in them, and let the people who want to be remote be remote! The net difference is pretty close to nil, especially at large companies where meetings are teleconferencing-by-default!

If anything productivity has increased in the remote era. You no longer burn the first 5 minutes of every meeting kicking the previous person out of the conference room. And then another 5 minutes to wait for someone who had to sprint from halfway across campus to make it to the meeting room from their previous meeting room. Plus the mad dash scramble to claim meeting rooms since there obviously aren't enough for everyone.

In the remote-first world I just... click a button to hang up. And click another button to join the next call. Everyone is on time, meetings start and end on time. People are more inclined to take minutes and notes. It just seems to... work better.

[edit] Also, again, to be clear: people who like working from offices should be allowed to do so! There is nothing wrong with making friends with your coworkers, going to lunch with them, grabbing beers after work, or anything like that.

I just shouldn't be forced to do these things with you! I have a family I want to get back to! I resent being forced to have parasocial relationships with colleagues so they can fulfill their need for social contact! They should find other people who want to do that with them, because forcing me to be there just so I can fulfill someone else's parasocial need is honestly pretty twisted.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#149

Post by utexaspunk »

bradgessler wrote: post #112
shmatt wrote: post #28

The thing is, this becomes theater of working. Imagine commuting to the office 60-90 minutes each direction just to sit in a stuffy room and zoom Want to talk collaboration and productivity? Let's see if a company bans zoom for office days (but none will) And im not even going to start on the complete waste of time of people in an open space talking non stop about their fantasy football draft. I haven't heard those w…

This is what I don't understand about return-to-office mandates for global software/services companies. Even 10 years ago when I'd visit Google HQ, I'd always end up on a conference room on a Google Meet with other Googler's from around the world. What is the point of going to an office to be on video calls all day?

Maintaining the value of commercial real estate?

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#150

Post by toomuchtodo »

paxys wrote: post #120
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Amazon's case, it might not be theater. Amazon owns around a dozen skyscrapers in downtown Seattle. Amazon has a massive number of employees in downtown Seattle, and whether those people are downtown or not makes a significant difference to the real estate values in downtown Seattle. Making their employees come into the office may in fact mean a significant financial reward to Amazon, but not because the employees…

And don't forget that downtown businesses and real estate developers are putting pressure on local governments, who in turn are putting pressure on big employers to mandate that employees commute daily and spend money in the city.

Mayor Adams in NYC is already having to walk it back.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/nyc-remote-work-eric-a...

> He pulled the plug on the idea of remote work for city employees in 2022, saying early during his tenure as mayor: "One thing that can’t happen — you can’t stay home in your pajamas all day. That’s not who we are as a city." But now it seems Adams has evolved on the subject, acknowledging this week that "we are saying to our agencies come up with creative ways of having flexibility."

> Kathryn Wylde, of the pro-business Partnership for New York City, said the numbers tell the story. "Fewer than 10 percent of office workers are back five days a week," she said. "I think the mayor is getting the message the world has changed." Wylde added that unless an employer — including City Hall — offers a work from home option, the job vacancies may remain unfilled. "We are going to have to work with employees, they are driving the bus here," said Wylde.

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