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Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

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Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#141

Post by marktangotango »

paulmd wrote: post #49
bobjordan wrote: post #6

This is a serious problem for us in my business as our business banking software we are forced to use by our bank in mainland China still only works with IE. I spent an hour last night ultimately inputting shady commands into my registry, to try to force IE to open instead of being hijacked by edge. When an entire industry in a country refuses to upgrade what the hell? Of course I’m pissed the bank hadn’t upgraded bu…

Korea went deeply down the "custom security" rabbithole too, and many banks there still rely on activeX controls and custom encryption algorithms and other insane bullshit that actively impairs security. It seems to be a regional thing (or at least a developing-country thing). https://palant.info/2023/01/02/south-koreas-online-security-... HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34231364 https://www.forbe…

I spent two years modernizing one of these IE only apps (moved to chrome/firefox). Sometimes the offending activex control is simply a xml component (literally parsing, xsl, xpath, etc stuff) of a newer version than what was built in at one time. Firefox and Chrome don't handle xml nearly as seamlessly as old IE did. But other times these apps require IE11, but it's actually executing the page in IE6 or 7 compatibility mode. That was the case with mine, Microsoft DHTML Behaviors, the horror, the horror....

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#142

Post by jeroenhd »

skc wrote: post #13
athorax wrote: post #7

Take edge with it, please and thank you

What's wrong with Edge. Been pleasantly surprised by it myself.

Edge was absolutely great. I even recommended it at some point.

Then they started packing more features into it than a shareware application in the 2000s. They even went so far as to bundle code that replaces the checkout form in web shops (breaking some of them, of course). Their disgusting methods to force people to use Edge also turned me off. Something good doesn't need its user base to be forced to use it.

It's a real tragedy. Edgium had some great features and Super Duper Secure mode is the obvious next step in defence in depth for browsers. I just can't trust it anymore.

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#143

Post by brk »

horsawlarway wrote: post #60
nimbius wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and replace them with compatibility shims christ can you imagine the raw hubris in 1995 to roll this out and inexplicably make it not only uninstallable by the user, but a core and critical functionality of your entire OS such that any attempt to sidestep or evade it would be met with ruination? Its so bombastic the US Justice department hauls your pepsi sipping CEO in for a round of slouching, hand-waving antitrust…

This is a very strange comment. Personally... I absolutely understand exactly how they ended up in this situation. There are actually several good reasons to embed the browser into the OS, the top two easily understood ones are... --- 1. They've put a lot of work into the browser, and they've shared many components of it with other tooling. EX: Internet EXPLORER and EXPLORER the file system browser don't share their…

The era in which Microsoft forced IE into the OS was purely about anti-competitiveness and their own fear of being caught off guard on this whole internet fad.

The only reason we need IE shims at all is because MS botched their overall internet strategy. Had they made a truly competitive browser and supported common standards, and the user's ability to choose their browser, none of this would be needed.

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#144

Post by brk »

Lapsa wrote: post #136
horsawlarway wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very strange comment. Personally... I absolutely understand exactly how they ended up in this situation. There are actually several good reasons to embed the browser into the OS, the top two easily understood ones are... --- 1. They've put a lot of work into the browser, and they've shared many components of it with other tooling. EX: Internet EXPLORER and EXPLORER the file system browser don't share their…

that's one thing I genuinely admire Microsoft for - the effort they put into maintenance

I somewhat agree, but even that is only for capitalistic reasons.

If they didn't have the massive backwards compatibility, corporate users would essentially be free to choose a new OS platform every few years. By maintaining deep legacy software support, they make it easy for their customers to stay addicted to Windows.

MS is not doing this for your benefit, or out of some kind of dedication, it's pure capitalism.

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#145

Post by 93po »

dilippkumar wrote: post #63
nimbius wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and replace them with compatibility shims christ can you imagine the raw hubris in 1995 to roll this out and inexplicably make it not only uninstallable by the user, but a core and critical functionality of your entire OS such that any attempt to sidestep or evade it would be met with ruination? Its so bombastic the US Justice department hauls your pepsi sipping CEO in for a round of slouching, hand-waving antitrust…

> …you now need a team of H1B's to start writing shims… This was uncalled for. You could’ve just said engineers. For those of us in an unending battle with a broken immigration system every day of our lives for over a decade, this really rubs the wrong way.

Agree with other poster - I think he's criticizing the tech industry's abuse of workers who are immigrants, and their motivation to do so that's based on greed and profits and the power imbalance.

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#146

Post by skinnymuch »

testTED wrote: post #137
Gigachad wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android always has a browser you can’t remove. It’s just not always chrome.

The OS needs a browser engine for its WebView, which many apps etc rely on. On non Google Android releases these can pretty easily be swapped. Possibly on Google Android as well.

People are talking about no browser. Not swapping them

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#147

Post by asdff »

jiggawatts wrote: post #125
asdff wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft only cares about legacy support if it means the vast majority of customers. I will give you an example: go to a top tier research institution for biology, and sort your cells with the fluorescence-activated cell sorter (FACS). You might have to now burn that data onto a cd rom, because the software running the six figure instrument was written in 2002 for windows XP, and for reasons only known to microsoft,…

Would you expect a 20-year-old MacOS to run on a modern MacBook? Why not? Would you expect a 20-year-old Linux to install just fine on a modern PC? I remind you that this was the era of RHEL 3! I had trouble getting RHEL 6 running in a virtual machine just recently. Meanwhile XP will run on most modern PCs, it’s just not supported . That means no security patches. The mistake here is not Microsoft’s. The mistake is y…

I would expect a bash script I wrote 20 years ago to run on a new linux machine I buy today, yes. I'm not asking for windows XP to be installed, I am asking for these modern machines to let me run the code the machine I was sold 15 years ago let me run. This whole march to reduce compatibility is kind of stupid imo. Let me buy a mac that can run 32 bit software still!

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#148

Post by sentientslug »

jiggawatts wrote: post #125
asdff wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft only cares about legacy support if it means the vast majority of customers. I will give you an example: go to a top tier research institution for biology, and sort your cells with the fluorescence-activated cell sorter (FACS). You might have to now burn that data onto a cd rom, because the software running the six figure instrument was written in 2002 for windows XP, and for reasons only known to microsoft,…

Would you expect a 20-year-old MacOS to run on a modern MacBook? Why not? Would you expect a 20-year-old Linux to install just fine on a modern PC? I remind you that this was the era of RHEL 3! I had trouble getting RHEL 6 running in a virtual machine just recently. Meanwhile XP will run on most modern PCs, it’s just not supported . That means no security patches. The mistake here is not Microsoft’s. The mistake is y…

Respectfully you have no idea what you're talking about. These half-million dollar devices (often more expensive than that) were the ONLY option at the time to perform certain kinds of experiments. Not exactly a choice.

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#149

Post by Clubber »

horsawlarway wrote: post #60
nimbius wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and replace them with compatibility shims christ can you imagine the raw hubris in 1995 to roll this out and inexplicably make it not only uninstallable by the user, but a core and critical functionality of your entire OS such that any attempt to sidestep or evade it would be met with ruination? Its so bombastic the US Justice department hauls your pepsi sipping CEO in for a round of slouching, hand-waving antitrust…

This is a very strange comment. Personally... I absolutely understand exactly how they ended up in this situation. There are actually several good reasons to embed the browser into the OS, the top two easily understood ones are... --- 1. They've put a lot of work into the browser, and they've shared many components of it with other tooling. EX: Internet EXPLORER and EXPLORER the file system browser don't share their…

christ can you imagine the raw hubris in 1995 to roll this out and inexplicably make it not only uninstallable by the user, but a core and critical functionality of your entire OS such that any attempt to sidestep or evade it would be met with ruination?

>This is a very strange comment.

In around 2001 when MS was being tried for antitrust, they claimed that IE couldn't be decoupled from the OS because it would break the os. I believe that is what the OP is alluding to. I believe an unassociated professor managed to decouple it later.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor....

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#150

Post by j45 »

PreInternet01 wrote: post #5

More correct albeit less clickbaity headline: recent builds of Microsoft Edge will uninstall any remnants of Internet Explorer from your PC and replace them with compatibility shims, so most legacy apps should continue to work as-is. On Windows Server platforms, where IE11 is still inexplicably the default experience even in the most recent 2022 editions, you can still enjoy its full functionality, until you explicit…

For those who experienced IE being forced on computers, simply entertaining the idea of it being forced off computers without choice is not just click-baity but also a special coming full circle moment.

Besides, every step towards an OS being something a user doesn't own or control, either for their own good, or users who can't help themselves, is another step towards lasting demand for usable Linux. '

It's nice that Ubuntu is starting to feel like MacOSX when it started to become usable for the many and not just the few.

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