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Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

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Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#141

Post by i2infinity »

npalli wrote: post #9

Here's the weird thing though, as discussed yesterday [1], the Microsoft demo was totally broken as well. In the end, everyone is looking for a big platform shift (next MOBILE!!!) and hype getting ahead of reality. When we look back in 3 months we will wonder why we thought LLM/GPT type queries will replace search in all forms. https://dkb.blog/p/bing-ai-cant-be-trusted

Wasn't the first iPhone demo totally buggy as well? It doesn't matter. Users have seen what ChatGPT can do, and the community was excited that Bing will offer it for free soon and is eager to pivot to it.

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#142

Post by bitexploder »

richardwhiuk wrote: post #43
segmondy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing weird about it. It's called first mover's advantage. Wanna make electric cars, you have to beat Tesla. No matter how nice your car is. If your range is worse. Booo. If your self driving is equivalent or worse, Boo. Whatever Tesla has done, you must be better at. You need better design, cheaper price, better range, better reliability else no one would notice you.

Or you need a big differentiator which makes you the new first mover.

You don't even always need a big differentiator. We got rid of our Tesla sacrificing range to have normal vehicle controls. Some times tech just gets good enough that being the first mover can't beat the entrenched players inevitability and willingness to give customers what they ask for instead of insisting you will like something you never asked for, even after you try it and tell them you don't like the thing they insist you will like. Tesla has gone all in on things like touch screens and non-standard controls and it has literally lost them our business twice. I would have bought a Model S Plaid if it just had a normal steering wheel. No questions asked. And my partner would have kept her Model 3 if it didn't have such annoying vehicle controls for certain things. Little stuff really matters and Tesla sticks their head in the sand over it while Audi will happily make you a pretty normal SUV that happens to be zippy and electric.

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#143

Post by nsxwolf »

theRealMe wrote: post #107
mjr00 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I’ve already used GPT to write thank you note and create a blog post, and I’ve used midjourney to create stock photos. Neither of those are searching for information , though, which is a very different use case. If 95% of the time GPT writes a great thank you note, that's very useful. If 95% of the time Midjourney gives me a good stock image, that's great! If 95% of the time GPT gives me a correct search result…

If you think that more than 95% of the google search results give you an accurate answer, then I’ve got a search result about bridges to sell you… Edit: and to add more so this response isn’t purely trash talking: plenty of us have already switched over to using ChatGPT/bing for our standard question answerer. It is far more efficient than getting back pages of search results and having to parse through garbage site…

Search doesn't give you answers, it gives you pages that are popular that may contain the answers. You have to look at those pages, consider the source, and develop your own intuition and heuristics to determine if you trust that information. It's a skill you develop over time.

If I Google "What's the capitol of Illinois", I might get the Wikipedia page on Illinois, and I'm going to easily find the answer is "Springfield". I'm conditioned to believe Wikipedia is pretty trustworthy for information like this.

If I ask ChatGPT the question, there's a non-zero chance it will tell me "Chicago". In the chatbot-as-search paradigm, I'm expected to just accept that error.

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#144

Post by faizshah »

kweingar wrote: post #47

(Disclaimer: Google employee, I don’t work on Bard, views my own, etc.) I don’t think either Bing Chat or Bard is ready to be released widely. You need a certain mindset to be able to wring value out of them, and most normal users will not think this way. That being said, it’s probably fine to release these tools to enthusiastic early adopters who understand how to use them.

Yea, I think CoPilot style tools that generate the prompts for you and pipeline the models are going to see wider adoption in the long run. I think this raw chat UX where you are directly interacting with the model is more of a demo of where we are at with the tech and RLHF rather than something that will have wide applications in the long run.

There’s lots of papers on hybrid information retrieval with LLMs that is probably the right strategy for Google rather than a chat bot (which they tried with Google Assistant which was fairly accurate but not very useful). The main issue with these models right now is they are horrible at recalling facts from their training set but incredible at pulling facts from their prompt. Google has the best IR and LLM researchers in the world, they just need a bolder strategy rather than this FOMO strategy.

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#145

Post by wing-_-nuts »

nwienert wrote: post #61
mynameisvlad wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the long run, sure. In the short to medium term, though, they solidly dominate the field. We're still in that phase phase of both Tesla and Bing AI.

Bing isn't dominating anything haha.

Bing's image search is better than google's. Hands down. While this has been popularized for ...ehem...nsfw reasons, it's also very useful to find charts and visualizations related to a particular topic. As an example, I was searching for charts that showed laptop vs desktop market share, and bam! There's the latest projections.

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#146

Post by alex_sf »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #42
segmondy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing weird about it. It's called first mover's advantage. Wanna make electric cars, you have to beat Tesla. No matter how nice your car is. If your range is worse. Booo. If your self driving is equivalent or worse, Boo. Whatever Tesla has done, you must be better at. You need better design, cheaper price, better range, better reliability else no one would notice you.

The problem with this analysis is that first movers usually don't win.

They usually don't win in the long-run because someone comes along with

> better design, cheaper price, better range, better reliability

That doesn't mean the first mover advantage doesn't exist.

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#147

Post by phkahler »

monkmartinez wrote: post #109
matthewdgreen wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the short term Google has an utterly dominant position in Search, and Bing AI is basically irrelevant to this. What people are worried about are the implications for the long term.

I have switched to Bing and Edge, then wrote a script to rack up points in hopes that I get moved up for the new BingGPT. Google search results have been trending toward crap for a while from my POV. 'Google it' is sticky, but I absolutely have not missed a beat with Edge and Bing. In fact, Edge has been a really pleasant surprise with features Chrome doesn't have. A calculator in the side bar is fracking awesome!

>> A calculator in the side bar is fracking awesome!

Another case of the browser doing what the OS and Desktop environment should be doing. I like to point at tabs - DEs and GUI toolkits never really came up with a good way to handle multiple documents well.

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#148

Post by burtness »

ralfd wrote: post #121
matthewdgreen wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this analysis is that first movers usually don't win.

It depends on the definition what "first" means. For example Amazon Kindle was not the first eReader. But its platform-ecosystem was years sooner than Barnes & Nobles Nook and Kindle won out. Amazon itself is technically a "second mover" because there was an obscure online book shop before, but no one else from the established sales companies or Walmart could compete with them. Tesla was not the first electric car. B…

This sounds more like "incumbent" than "first"

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#149

Post by scarface74 »

i2infinity wrote: post #141
npalli wrote: post #9

Here's the weird thing though, as discussed yesterday [1], the Microsoft demo was totally broken as well. In the end, everyone is looking for a big platform shift (next MOBILE!!!) and hype getting ahead of reality. When we look back in 3 months we will wonder why we thought LLM/GPT type queries will replace search in all forms. https://dkb.blog/p/bing-ai-cant-be-trusted

Wasn't the first iPhone demo totally buggy as well? It doesn't matter. Users have seen what ChatGPT can do, and the community was excited that Bing will offer it for free soon and is eager to pivot to it.

No the first iPhone demo went off without a hitch. In hindsight, we found out that the iPhone hardware and software was buggy during the demo and if SJ had deviated even slightly from the script it would have crashed.

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#150

Post by aliqot »

wccrawford wrote: post #68
lvspiff wrote: post #14

Whats with everything being a dumpster fire nowadays? how about a simple hot mess? or what happened to a good ol hell in a hand-basket? or Ninth Circle Of Hell? I'm sure there are better euphemisms than the dumpster being on fhir as that indicates someone stoking it whereas the reality is more indecision and inaction causing confusion and demoralizing the teams.

Everything has to be turned up to 11 today because too many people think they won't get enough attention if they actually label something as severe/important as it actually is.

Think about it, we stopped watching traditional news, then shunned news that was too slow because twitter was faster though sometimes wrong.

so traditional news media was like "aight, bet" and now we are where we are.

the trump era fully solidified that the more ragetastic you can make your title, the more people tribe up and engage in the comments so your one shitty little 30 second article now has people mobbing together in droves for the comments and your ad rate is through the roof. what you're writing doesn't even have to have any fact, it can be all opinion, and in most cases this can afford you even more leeway to be inflammatory.

does anybody else see this happening or am I just here rambling at the sky?

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