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Temple Student Strike Turns Ugly as School Ends Some Tuition Aid

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Re: Temple Student Strike Turns Ugly as School Ends Some Tuition Aid

#141

Post by komali2 »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #63
munk-a wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are reports from strikers trying to refill medication that the medical benefit suspension has already unilaterally gone into effect. The university has gone ahead with their threats in that regard (which is especially shitty since it's pretty standard in the US to give employees a health insurance grace period on termination). I am really confused about what the university thinks they're going to get out of the…

What do you mean? The university is trying to teach a lesson by inflicting pain on those who stood against it. I thought that was clear. Do you maybe mean "what makes them think that this is legal?" I doubt they do. But they likely decided that value of sending a "don't fuck with us" message was higher than the cost of the likely mild consequences.

> on those who stood against it

Then, the university has already lost. Systemically its convinced itself that some of the core providers of its value are its enemy in some way, rather than a cooperative part of its being.

It's always been clear cut to me, the relationship between workers and owners: one tries to get the most work for the least money, and the other, the most money for the least work.

What's surprising is a university was happy to jump feet first right into that dynamic. That's really how it wants its relationship with its junior faculty to be? The ones that are ostensibly applying the university mission at ground level?

Re: Temple Student Strike Turns Ugly as School Ends Some Tuition Aid

#142

Post by thwayunion »

elashri wrote: post #139
loeg wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grad student "tuition" isn't pay. It's a made up number transferred from the university to itself.

Worse than this, they charge faculty grants this amount. Beside the percentage, they take from the grant itself. On average, we are talking about the university taking anything between 50-70% of any effective money for research. The other 30% pay for student's stipend, research expenses and equipments.

And even worse than that, there's a good chance that most of the grad students being charged for "tuition" in this case aren't even taking any courses for most of the semesters they're in grad school. I have no doubt some of these students are being charged huge tuition bills without being enrolled in a single course.

Re: Temple Student Strike Turns Ugly as School Ends Some Tuition Aid

#143

Post by komali2 »

munk-a wrote: post #137
pxc wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Violence is never a good response as long as there are other avenues open. I absolutely agree that Temple's actions here are loathsome, but even reciprocal violence should be avoided if possible.

Given that some are arguing that we open the definition of violence to include things beyond what society has traditionally thought of it to be (punching people in the face) to society's detriment imo, how do you feel about the statement "removing healthcare is violence?"

Can you think of other forms of similar violence that may sit well with you? Some might argue that a strike itself is a form of violence against profits.

Imo once healthcare is touched, which I do agree is a form of violence to remove, the strikers should absolutely respond in kind, by escalating the strike to slow some other part of the operation, perhaps by disrupting deliveries, switching off power to things, whatever else.

Re: Temple Student Strike Turns Ugly as School Ends Some Tuition Aid

#144

Post by jcranmer »

secabeen wrote: post #68
gerdesj wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This (see below) seems to be the problem - students are being forced to pay for something that was originally gratis (punished) because they are protesting about something. That is not normally how a liberal democracy works. We don't punish requests for comments, we engage ... ================================================= Dear Temple Student: As a result of your participation in the TUGSA strike, your tuition rem…

But look at this closely, with engagement. Currently, they are on strike, so tuition remissions cannot be issued. If that remains the case until March 6th, they will need to pay. If the strike is resolved before March 6th, and then they still refuse to issue the remissions, that would be a significant violation.

> Currently, they are on strike, so tuition remissions cannot be issued.

That's... not how tuition remissions work. The remission would have been issued before the semester starts (as tuition bills are generally do at the very beginning of the semester).

You're also putting a lot of faith in an entity that goes to considerable effort to monetarily punish people for striking [1] is going to be willing, out of the kindness of its heart, to go through that effort again to reward people for no longer striking. I do not think it wise to rely on that faith.

[1] This is basically retroactive actions in terms of finance, not to mention that this probably causes issues for grants that are supposed to be used for tuition remissions no longer being used for this.

Re: Temple Student Strike Turns Ugly as School Ends Some Tuition Aid

#145

Post by juve1996 »

labster wrote: post #62
shishy wrote: post #9

Bone headed move. They must have miscalculated if they think the students will cave to this pressure. Also, how can they take away tuition reimbursement for the whole semester if the strike hasnt been that long? Garbage administration. I hope the students win and that this isnt the new normal.

Certainly a garbage administration. This is a huge signal to prospective graduate students not to apply to Temple University, a clear signal that they care more about money than your education. Grad students being at the bottom of the administrative priorities is nothing new, but threatening to prevent them from taking classes is a new low.

Higher education has grown disgustingly large. There is no reason grad students, which have driven a good portion of this growth, shouldn't be somewhat rewarded.

Once again workers in this country are asking for the bare minimum as they continually get screwed over. Just another cartel taking away from people doing the actual work, with their endless army of bureaucrats.

Re: Temple Student Strike Turns Ugly as School Ends Some Tuition Aid

#146

Post by hypomanic »

72948957 wrote: post #86

To be honest, I don't really get the point of the strike. The grad students are not only getting a free education, they're also getting paid a stipend on top of that. Grad students tend to have extremely flexible schedules, freedom to pursue their intellectual interests, the ability to attend seminars and travel to conferences, etc. At least in STEM fields, anyone in grad school probably could have gotten a higher-pa…

They have to work a ton. They're being used for cheap labor.

Re: Temple Student Strike Turns Ugly as School Ends Some Tuition Aid

#147

Post by jltsiren »

72948957 wrote: post #86

To be honest, I don't really get the point of the strike. The grad students are not only getting a free education, they're also getting paid a stipend on top of that. Grad students tend to have extremely flexible schedules, freedom to pursue their intellectual interests, the ability to attend seminars and travel to conferences, etc. At least in STEM fields, anyone in grad school probably could have gotten a higher-pa…

I don't like "grad students" as a category.

Master's students, or early stage PhD students, are typically continuing their undergraduate education. They should be considered students for all intents and purposes.

People doing research for a PhD should be considered junior professionals rather than students and paid accordingly. When I was doing it, the pay was 2/3 of what you could reasonably expect in the industry. That was a fair sum, considering the freedom and flexibility that came with the job. When I look back at that time, it was the period in my life when I had the best balance between income and free time.

Re: Temple Student Strike Turns Ugly as School Ends Some Tuition Aid

#148

Post by legitster »

loeg wrote: post #122
legitster wrote: post #84

I'm a bit confused - striking workers don't normally retain pay and benefits. I don't understand what would make graduate students any different? If they were being punished just for organizing or demonstrating it would probably be a different matter. But I think the University probably has good legal standing here to say "we're just not compensating them for work they didn't do".

Grad student "tuition" isn't pay. It's a made up number transferred from the university to itself.

Not necessarily. There are plenty of grad students who do pay full price and do not take on any of the responsibilities.

Re: Temple Student Strike Turns Ugly as School Ends Some Tuition Aid

#149

Post by WalterBright »

komali2 wrote: post #136
BobbyJo wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's far easier to optimize for profit then theoretical ideals. The issue here isn't that they are optimizing for profit, the issue is that incentives have put that pursuit at odds with the university's core mission (education/community), as opposed to keeping it aligned with it. Pursuit of profit should keep you accountable for the services you provide, not detract from them.

So it's easier to optimize for profit, so what? How can your core mission be education but "you're optimizing for profit?" Either your core mission is education or it isn't. I feel like this is the kind of goal setting miss I see businesses make all the time. They'll be doing be doing some version of the ubiquitous value setting activity, and as ideas are pitched someone will be like "wait, isn't our most basic value…

The beauty of the free market is that the way to maximize profit is to maximize customer satisfaction.

Re: Temple Student Strike Turns Ugly as School Ends Some Tuition Aid

#150

Post by giantg2 »

munk-a wrote: post #43
TillE wrote: post #5

As various lawyers have commented on Twitter, this seems like an insanely blatant violation of labor laws. Just a straight up written confession of illegal retaliation. Unless they have some obscure exemption that nobody else knows about, I cannot imagine how the university's legal counsel signed off on this.

There are reports from strikers trying to refill medication that the medical benefit suspension has already unilaterally gone into effect. The university has gone ahead with their threats in that regard (which is especially shitty since it's pretty standard in the US to give employees a health insurance grace period on termination). I am really confused about what the university thinks they're going to get out of the…

Would COBRA come into play here?
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