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Reddit mods and scaling problems in social control

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141–150 of 210 posts

Re: Reddit mods and scaling problems in social control

#141
post #111

Reddit's decade-old rule that you shouldn't submit more than 10% of your own content is one of the weirdest artifacts of that era, especially since every social media company would kill for good original content.

What percent of own-content submissions are good original content though?

What percent of non-own content is ?

This rule basically says "just submit a bunch of vaguely related crap and shove some of your stuff in-between so nobody can complain".

And for those that really want to promote, do that under some alt-account then go "Hi!, author here, ...." on your main for extra engagement

Re: Reddit mods and scaling problems in social control

#142
post #84

Ok, hear me out: I am a mod of two very large subs. The larger one and the one were I am mostly active is HUGE. To give you an idea how large, there are anywhere between 7 and 15000 comments per day and in terms of active moderators, it's somewhere between 5 and 6(the others pop in and out for 5-6 actions a day). First things first, beyond the reddit TOS, ultimately the moderators have the final word on what stays an…

What HN did reasonably well was to train its own users to do a bit of moderation themselves; the "bad" behaviour have good chance to just get flagged or have some user complain about your comment.

I saw that behaviour few times in some other forums and for mid-sized communities it seems to work, provided you cultivate that culture in the members

Re: Reddit mods and scaling problems in social control

#143
post #21

It's not a scaling problem , it s a "reddit likes free labor" problem. They aren't going to give up on the small group of self-important idiots who named themselves mods 15 years ago and still havent quit, because they can't find new ones. No sane person will do such work for free in 2023 Trying to reason on the behavior of the mods is like arguing with the weather

We know some power-users are paid to promote things by advertising agencies and other special interest groups. We know some PACs are active in trying to shape public opinion on Reddit. I wouldn't be surprised at all if some of the moderators, especially the "powermods", are earning a living based on payments by some of these groups.

What’s hilarious is the idea that Reddit users are worth influencing in any way shape or form. But I suppose once you roll up the niches you end up with a big number.

Re: Reddit mods and scaling problems in social control

#144
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it's because they feel more comfortable expressing themselves in a pseudoanonymous forum. Perhaps they discovered that they were trans by virtue of being eternally online. I believe it is the latter to a great extent. I don't know if there are any studies of this (or if studying such things is even permitted), but in my own fairly small family/friends groups there are 6 people (out of around 30 or 40) who hav…

Just learned this week that an extended family member is trans. Not a single sign of gender dysphoria throughout her entire 21 years of life. 6 months of university and surgery is pending. The social contagion is so plain to see but I guess talking about it is a taboo.

> The social contagion is so plain to see but I guess talking about it is a taboo.

This is very sad yet, regrettably, very true. It is becoming increasingly popular to promote drugging and mutilating not only adults, which is bad enough, but also children. This goes far beyond just the most obvious extreme of so-called "transgenders" but also beyond to the entire "LGBT" complex. I've personally heard, firsthand, college students express sadness about being "straight" or put various "identities" on a pedestal.

Re: Reddit mods and scaling problems in social control

#145
A waiting period before posting or commenting, and then making a few decisive and prominent examples of corrections before they get out of hand likely goes a long way to preserving the cooperation of participants at making the forum enjoyable.

I was just going on in another thread about how curation and moderation are like a cooperate/defect equillibrium or game theory, where the job is to promote cooperators in the mission of creating a quality vibe and isolating or filtering defectors from it - as opposed to measuring individual posts against a set of rules. It may be a deeper idea, as it's less about about enforcing rules and more about rewarding strategies.

There was an HN moderator post about how he indexed on the effect of someone's posts, which seems like an immensely efficient way to leverage forum participants' revealed behaviors. Downvotes are a coarse measure, but a flame war starting thread is visually obvious and detecting them scales really well because you can see and even measure sentiment in responses. Flame wars are also costly to the people in them, which makes them an honest and high value signal of the quality of the discussion a comment produces, because they have to spend time and effort to vent spleens, where downvotes are much lower information. I remember thinking it was a very elegant technique.

This strategies-and-effect driven approach is different from those Nudge Unit types because the goal is measured by producing a quality of something shared, instead of say, misleading people in service of driving a metric. (they think automatically signing you up for things you have to cancel is wise virtuous, but using lotteries that people actually willingly play are somehow unethical. Behavioral economists are just touts with airs, imo.)

We know that complex rules yield poor behaviors and reward arbitrage and defection. Simple rules reduce to being aribitrary, and really, rules generally just produce more rules. Guidelines and public examples (positive and negative) make people self moderate, which itself has shown to scale pretty well (e.g. HN).

The Dunbar reference in the article made me think that the best moderation probably doesn't scale much past that. But beyond the Dunbar number, perhaps it's more accurate to say that a forum is no longer a mere thing, but becomes a culture. The thing that doesn't scale is, a forum you can moderate with rules, a community you can moderate with standards, but when a community graduates to a sub-culture, it's likely that this higher level managing its strategies is the way to maintain its equillibrium.

Re: Reddit mods and scaling problems in social control

#147
post #142
post #84

Ok, hear me out: I am a mod of two very large subs. The larger one and the one were I am mostly active is HUGE. To give you an idea how large, there are anywhere between 7 and 15000 comments per day and in terms of active moderators, it's somewhere between 5 and 6(the others pop in and out for 5-6 actions a day). First things first, beyond the reddit TOS, ultimately the moderators have the final word on what stays an…

What HN did reasonably well was to train its own users to do a bit of moderation themselves; the "bad" behaviour have good chance to just get flagged or have some user complain about your comment. I saw that behaviour few times in some other forums and for mid-sized communities it seems to work, provided you cultivate that culture in the members

Oh no, our community has been incredibly helpful in that regard. They do report things if they see them. I was really pleasantly surprised by that to be fair. And as time goes, you lean who your most valuable contributors are and you start paying closer attention to them. Which is not to say that the automations and bots I made didn't take tons of loads off all mods on the sub.

Re: Reddit mods and scaling problems in social control

#148
post #22

Reddit mods are arguably the worst part of reddit. It's so refreshing to come to HN and see (community- and mod-powered) moderation done right

It varies by sub, and by the purpose of the sub. Some are terrible, some are quite good. For example, the mods of r/askhistorians are so strict that in most threads the majority of the comments are deleted. But they apply the rules consistently, and keep the sub tightly focused on questions answered by professional historians, in detail, with sources. If you have a historical question you'd like answered, it's an ama…

AskHistorians is a great resource until you watch how topics in your area of expertise are answered and the kind of diversion from wide consensus that is tolerated with scant sourcing. It basically mirrors whats been happening to academia. As long as you can source a peer review on gay dogs in parks you'll be taken as credible.

I remember seeing posts there talking about how Ancient Sparta was never exceptional and actually lost most battles. As someone who has read all the primary source material on the Spartans...thats total crap.

Re: Reddit mods and scaling problems in social control

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For people who are saying "thankfully HN is different!", it really isn't. Yes it is. HN's moderation is run by HN. The rules are applied consistently because there are are no third party mods or rules. People know what to expect and that builds community better. You don't have to wonder if some edgelord mod is going to get home from school and delete your post based on their mood.

You are still incorrectly comparing. The equivalent to HN in Reddit world is a single subreddit. When you compare a single subreddit to HN, you see there aren't many differences at all, a single set of rules being applied as the mods intend.

Sure, except that's not actually the case at all.

I don't know if dang is the only HN moderator, but even if he's not I've never seen any evidence of anyone in that role here just capriciously remove or lock discussions in a way that's absolutely commonplace on Reddit.

There are subs on Reddit that I simply no longer engage with because I'm sick of dimwit edgelord mods locking discussions whilst I'm typing out a contribution even though there's nothing wrong with either the original post or the discussion. There's no sense of consistency in the way the sub rules are applied in each of those subs.

A few weeks ago on the CasualUK subreddit one of the mods went off the deep end and started hurling insults left, right, and centre, and banning people simply for politely calling out their poor behaviour. That mod's conduct absolutely violated the rules of both the sub and Reddit as a whole. It's not OK and, again, it wouldn't happen here.

Re: Reddit mods and scaling problems in social control

#150
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it's because they feel more comfortable expressing themselves in a pseudoanonymous forum. Perhaps they discovered that they were trans by virtue of being eternally online. I believe it is the latter to a great extent. I don't know if there are any studies of this (or if studying such things is even permitted), but in my own fairly small family/friends groups there are 6 people (out of around 30 or 40) who hav…

Just learned this week that an extended family member is trans. Not a single sign of gender dysphoria throughout her entire 21 years of life. 6 months of university and surgery is pending. The social contagion is so plain to see but I guess talking about it is a taboo.

Acting like you are trans, why not, who cares. What ever feels good to you. Surgery is permanent, and we all did stupid things in the past. 6 month is pretty short for a life changing surgery where there is probably no comeback.
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