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7.8 magnitude earthquake hits Turkiye

earthquake.usgs.gov

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Re: 7.8 magnitude earthquake hits Turkiye

#141

Post by egorfine »

midoridensha wrote: post #92
pyuser583 wrote: post #51

Oh wow, that’s terrible. My spellchecker needs to be updated because it doesn’t want me writing “Turkiye.”

"Turkey" is the correct spelling in English. The Turkish government doesn't get to dictate what their country is called in other languages.

As a Ukrainian I can feel the pain.

Some people in the government renamed the english spelling of my city into an unreadable alphabet soup. Not only they strongly insist the whole world to spell it this way, they also deem everyone who doesn't like it a traitor.

So, spelling matters. A lot. Unfortunately.

Re: 7.8 magnitude earthquake hits Turkiye

#142

Post by spoils19 »

midoridensha wrote: post #117
joshuahaglund wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US State Department has already adopted the new spelling, so you're wrong. https://www.npr.org/2023/01/08/1147704945/the-state-departme... It's silly to think things don't change and rude to call people names they don't want to be called

News flash: The US State Department is not the authority on the English language either. Nor is the US government. The only authority on the English language is popular usage.

I disagree. The English language has spread around the world due to the US' work internationally.

Re: 7.8 magnitude earthquake hits Turkiye

#143

Post by Gibbon1 »

arp242 wrote: post #137
duluca wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol. Yes they do. There are dozens of instances of names of places being changed due to what the local population wants it to be called. Putting politics aside, disambiguating from the bird turkey is smart from a marketing and tourism sense.

Clearly there are limits to what is reasonable though; Vietnam is the common spelling in English, and I think it would be unreasonable to demand everyone spells it as Việt Nam. I can type most diacritics without too much effort, but no idea how to do that ệ double diacritic. The title on HN actually gets it "wrong" by the way, as it's supposed to be Türkiye, not Turkiye. Things can have more than one spelling or name…

> it's supposed to be Türkiye, not Turkiye.

English doesn't have umlauts

Re: 7.8 magnitude earthquake hits Turkiye

#144

Post by lucozade »

arp242 wrote: post #140
pyuser583 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it’s not clear how to pronounce “naive” - that’s common in English. Plenty of English words have little relation between how they are spelled and how they are pronounced. We don’t usually revert to archaic spellings to solve the matter. https://www.thoughtco.com/chaos-by-charivarius-gerard-nolst-...

While naïve is less common than naive, it is not archaic; it's simply an alternative spelling that's less commonly used. Actually, to my surprise naïve even seems to be gaining in popularity to the point it's about on-par with naive: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=naive%2Cna%C3%... And that other words in English have unfortunate spelling is not really a very string argument. You can use this on anythi…

> naïve even seems to be gaining in popularity

I wonder if this is the impact of technology. When written by hand, there's not much practical difference between naive and naïve. With English typewriters and English keyboards, writing naïve is tricky so people, presumably, just didn't bother. Now, however, a lot of written text goes through spelling correction so, if the spell checker wants naïve then it may automatically change it or suggest you do.

In my completely rigorous and scientifically valid testing of this assumption: Word corrects to naïve, Chrome text box flags naïve, Edge text box is happy with both and imessage suggests naive. So bit of a mixed bag.

Re: 7.8 magnitude earthquake hits Turkiye

#145

Post by rat9988 »

midoridensha wrote: post #139
arp242 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly there are limits to what is reasonable though; Vietnam is the common spelling in English, and I think it would be unreasonable to demand everyone spells it as Việt Nam. I can type most diacritics without too much effort, but no idea how to do that ệ double diacritic. The title on HN actually gets it "wrong" by the way, as it's supposed to be Türkiye, not Turkiye. Things can have more than one spelling or name…

At least "Vietnam" is somewhat close to the native spelling. I live in Japan, and the English name is nothing at all like the native name (日本, romanized as "nihon"). But you don't see the Japanese government throwing a fit over this. Furthermore, the name in many other languages is the same or much like "Japan": in German, it's spelled the same, but pronounced "yapan" since there's no (English) J sound. What does the…

You don't have to feel so strongly about other countries pronunciation. It doesn't matter much. You can still use Turkey and people will understand what you talk about. The problem will only arise in official communications between governments. I believe you aren't part of them anyway.

Re: 7.8 magnitude earthquake hits Turkiye

#146

Post by rat9988 »

midoridensha wrote: post #131
lmz wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this kind of argument valid for countries but not for pronouns?

Don't get me started on the silliness of people inventing completely unique "pronouns" and demanding everyone use them: it completely defeats the linguistic purpose of pronouns. If you want to be referred to a certain way, we already have something for that: it's called a "name". You can name yourself whatever you want. Anyway, back to your comment: this is a different issue. The pronoun thing is dealing with how peo…

They do use english though.

Re: 7.8 magnitude earthquake hits Turkiye

#147

Post by arp242 »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #143
arp242 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly there are limits to what is reasonable though; Vietnam is the common spelling in English, and I think it would be unreasonable to demand everyone spells it as Việt Nam. I can type most diacritics without too much effort, but no idea how to do that ệ double diacritic. The title on HN actually gets it "wrong" by the way, as it's supposed to be Türkiye, not Turkiye. Things can have more than one spelling or name…

> it's supposed to be Türkiye, not Turkiye. English doesn't have umlauts

It's not uncommon to have various diacritics in loanwords; e.g. über, führer, señor, façade, crème brûlée, or proper names such as Schrödinger, Gödel. All of these can be spelled without the diacritic too, but also with it.

Re: 7.8 magnitude earthquake hits Turkiye

#148

Post by mlindner »

joshuahaglund wrote: post #113
midoridensha wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Turkey" is the correct spelling in English. The Turkish government doesn't get to dictate what their country is called in other languages.

The US State Department has already adopted the new spelling, so you're wrong. https://www.npr.org/2023/01/08/1147704945/the-state-departme... It's silly to think things don't change and rude to call people names they don't want to be called

Wikipedia is a better source for common usage than the US state department, and they've explicitly resisted changing the spelling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey

And even then all major US publications use Turkey:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/powerful-earthquake-strikes-tur...

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/02/05/world/turkey-earthqu...

https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/turkey-earthquake-l...

https://www.foxnews.com/world/people-dead-turkey-syria-after...

So no, even in the US, "Türkiye" is not used. Please don't try to dictate to Americans and other first language speakers how our language is used.

Re: 7.8 magnitude earthquake hits Turkiye

#149

Post by mlindner »

midoridensha wrote: post #107
rippercushions wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can ask politely though, and spellings and names do change over time.

They can ask, but their request is stupid. The English language does not have any kind of facility for umlauted characters.

Agreed. They can try for "Turkiye" but not "Türkiye". That one will never be accepted.

Re: 7.8 magnitude earthquake hits Turkiye

#150

Post by mlindner »

spoils19 wrote: post #142
midoridensha wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

News flash: The US State Department is not the authority on the English language either. Nor is the US government. The only authority on the English language is popular usage.

I disagree. The English language has spread around the world due to the US' work internationally.

More recently yes, but historically it was from the British Empire. US's influence has helped expand it to many countries that never had former extensive use of English creating many new second language speakers, but in terms of first language speakers, the British Empire is still the cause of almost all of them.
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