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MDMA and psilocybin are approved as medicines in Australia

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Re: MDMA and psilocybin are approved as medicines in Australia

#141

Post by feeela »

samhuk wrote: post #137

I see quite a number of comments making some very wildly inaccurate statements about the pharmacological safety of MDMA. There have been a number of studies conducted about the health impact of MDMA. In monkeys, it has been shown to leave behind long-term brain damage, serotonin receptor damage for at least 7 years, etc. Personally, back at University I had some acquaintances who got quite addicted to them and appear…

Do you have sources for that comparison of Opioides with MDMA?

I also couldn't find much studies on MDMA itself, as most such studies refer to some sort of pills, which are usually mixed with other drugs (e.g. Speed).

Re: MDMA and psilocybin are approved as medicines in Australia

#142

Post by sirsinsalot »

MrScruff wrote: post #134
sirsinsalot wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It being MDMA and psilocybin is a bit odd. MDMA is very prone to abuse. Not saying it doesn't have therapeutic uses, but it is certainly a drug that needs huge respect and caution.

Not arguing that caution shouldn’t be applied but I think it’s a bit more subtle than that. MDMA is prone to abuse in the recreational use sense, but it’s not really habit forming in the same way other drugs are. Sure, you can always find edge cases but compared to many other drugs (including alcohol) you’re unlikely to meet many daily users.

I somewhat agree. Daily use doesn't produce the high being sought, but it is very habit forming.

I know from personal experience and that of many people around me that doing molly every weekend quickly becomes a dependency and will mess you up very quickly.

In a therapy setting I'm sure risks are low, but I wouldn't make such black and white comparisons against alcohol or say, cocaine.

The reality of addiction is more than a function of frequency or tolerance and often comparing drugs directly is misleading.

Re: MDMA and psilocybin are approved as medicines in Australia

#143

Post by Traubenfuchs »

bamboozled wrote: post #75
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, yes it does. The desire is always there, garnished with the knowledge that every single hit melts your brain and permanently erodes your serotonin receptors a little bit.

Hasn’t been my personal, or my friends experience. Got some source ?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1071023/

> Although initially it proved difficult to find any cognitive sequelae that correlated with these changes,11 recent animal studies have shown subtle, but lasting, deficits in cognitive behaviorsthat do correlate with the levels of damage to 5-HT systems in the hippocampus.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnins.2015.0044...

> In this study, we found an MDMA-related decline in memory performance on a visual paired association test in the first follow-up period in heavy MDMA users,

Re: MDMA and psilocybin are approved as medicines in Australia

#144

Post by monkeycantype »

petesergeant wrote: post #55
pnw wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would peg Australia more as an authoritarian liberal country rather than conservative. Most states in the US are far more conservative than Australia. Australia IMHO has never broken out of the colonial mindset, where the government knows what is best for you. Beyond drugs, that includes pervasive censorship of movies, books, video games, Internet etc. The lack of First and Fourth amendment style protections means…

The Australians I know tend to have this weird cognitive dissonance where they bemoan the nanny state they live in, and then complain about the lack of rules in the other countries they visit

I'm an Australian, and don't think that quite nails the dissonance. We're comfortable with being a relatively authoritarian relatively liberal country, because we believe that the government is competent and under our control, and that the sanctions that the government enforces are just a sacrifice we must make to common democratic project, but then ask an Australian - what do think of the current government and the answer is always / at all times, that they are are rabble of incompetent petty thieves rorting the nation.

(Except, actually, I'm kind of happy with Penny Wong as foreign minister)

Re: MDMA and psilocybin are approved as medicines in Australia

#147

Post by monkeycantype »

askvictor wrote: post #70
Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really cognitive dissonance that we're assessing laws individually based on merit, rather than prescribing to simple-minded political ideologies focused on vague concepts like more/less laws?

No, but bemoaning the 'nanny state' sounds like a simple minded ideology.

'nanny state' is almost a shibboleth to communicate a particular flavour of centre-right political view in Australia. Using 'Nanny state' usually communicates someone supports a tough on crime agenda, cuts to social and environmental spending, cuts to regulation. It's a pro business, low tax, tough on property crime view point. Often it actually involves considerable government spending increases on more police and business subsidies, that is often parodied as "socialism for me but not for thee"

Re: MDMA and psilocybin are approved as medicines in Australia

#148

Post by andrewstuart »

dep_b wrote: post #140
samhuk wrote: post #137

I see quite a number of comments making some very wildly inaccurate statements about the pharmacological safety of MDMA. There have been a number of studies conducted about the health impact of MDMA. In monkeys, it has been shown to leave behind long-term brain damage, serotonin receptor damage for at least 7 years, etc. Personally, back at University I had some acquaintances who got quite addicted to them and appear…

How the hell do you even dare to lob MDMA in the same category as Oxycontin? I have seen pretty much every substance abused daily (amphetamines, different types of legal medication, alcohol, marihuana, heroin) by people I knew, but I have never met anybody that took MDMA on a daily basis or had a strong dependency on it. Medics pretty much agree everywhere that MDMA is less addictive than alcohol which is in turn muc…

>> How the hell do you even dare

Comedown rage?

Re: MDMA and psilocybin are approved as medicines in Australia

#150

Post by BossingAround »

cleanchit wrote: post #90
aeturnum wrote: post #25

This is fantastic! I am generally very pro-psychadelic - they seem like they can offer unique aid to people and they are not very prone to abuse. The only "downside" is that, because outcomes vary widely (though are generally not negative, simply unhelpful), it's hard to call them "medicine" in the way that, say, asprin is medicine. However, with the proper understanding, I'm hopeful they can be a really helpful tool…

Can you drive on psilocybin?

It's a good question, but no, you cannot. On LSD, even walking gets difficult.
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