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Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

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Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#141
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The notion that we should be colonizing mars because of global warming is the stupidest thing I've ever read or heard. Yeah, because that's a strawman you imagined in your head. I'm not sure what gave you the impression that the two were related (other than that they're competing options) based on my previous comment.

Someone posted it upthread. You can replace any catastrophic event with global warming and it's just as facially stupid. Literally like the thought process of a child. It's completely divorced from reality.

While I don't expect extinction from any particular given cause — and definitely not from any of global warming, nuclear war, loss of biodiversity, peak phosphorous, or the ozone layer — humans have a few massive failure modes:

1. We refuse to believe very bad scenarios until much too late. Doesn't need to be apocalyptic: The Titanic isn't sinking; all of Hiroshima must have gone silent because a telegraph cable was damaged and it can't possibly be the entire city destroyed, and even if it was the Americans can't possibly repeat it; the Cultural Revolution cannot fail; the King can't be executed for treason by his own parliament; the general can't cross the Rubicon; Brutus can't betray me.

I think many of those things would have been dismissed the way you're doing now.

2. Tech is changing. I don't expect extinction from a natural pandemic, but from an artificial one is plausible; not from a natural impact event, but artificial is… not yet, but no harder than creating a Mars colony; propaganda has already started multiple genocide attempts, what happens when two independent campaigns are started at the same time when both groups want to genocide everyone not in their group?

The same risks would still be present on Mars, and the only way I see around the deliberate impact risk is space habitats which have their own different set of problems (given we can't coordinate on greenhouse gases I see no chance of us coordinating on Kesler syndrome either in cis-Luna nor in Dyson swarm scenarios).

I don't have any solutions here, though.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#142
post #12

The worst thing about being smart is how easy it is to talk yourself into believing just about anything. After all, you make really good arguments. EA appeals to exactly that kind of really-smart-person who is perfectly capable of convincing themselves that they're always right about everything. And from there, you can justify all kinds of terrible things. Once that happens, it can easily spiral out from there. Peopl…

Mountains beyond mountains is a great book with an alternative view. Dr Paul is likely to do a good job with your money helping people because he's taking local patients and root causing their problems causing them to get sick, and solving those.

Somebody from on high isn't going to have the right perspective to do a good job. I think the effective altruists are solving a problem for themselves "how do I feel better about having all this money" and not "how do I solve this person's lack of ability to fill prescriptions problem"

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#144
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone posted it upthread. You can replace any catastrophic event with global warming and it's just as facially stupid. Literally like the thought process of a child. It's completely divorced from reality.

While I don't expect extinction from any particular given cause — and definitely not from any of global warming, nuclear war, loss of biodiversity, peak phosphorous, or the ozone layer — humans have a few massive failure modes: 1. We refuse to believe very bad scenarios until much too late. Doesn't need to be apocalyptic: The Titanic isn't sinking; all of Hiroshima must have gone silent because a telegraph cable was…

[deleted]

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#145
post #16
post #12

The worst thing about being smart is how easy it is to talk yourself into believing just about anything. After all, you make really good arguments. EA appeals to exactly that kind of really-smart-person who is perfectly capable of convincing themselves that they're always right about everything. And from there, you can justify all kinds of terrible things. Once that happens, it can easily spiral out from there. Peopl…

Effective Altruism is just a modern iteration of a thing that's been around for a very long time. The fundamental idea is sound. However, in practice, it all-too-easily devolves into something really terrible. Especially once people start down the path of thinking the needs of today aren't as important as the needs of a hypothetical future population. Personally, I started "tithing" when my first business was a succe…

A 'sound idea' that devolves into terrible things whenever applied is not a sound idea.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#146
post #110
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a super-simplified summary, but I think it's generally accurate. The basic thesis of EA is "it is your duty to improve/save as many human lives as you can." At some point, a lot of EAs realized that there were many more future humans than present humans. Once you widen your scope in that way, you start realizing that long-term, catastrophic risks (climate change, nuclear disaster, misaligned AI) would affect…

Because we do that with mosquito nets. EA seems like a way to achieve nothing while looking like you're doing everything. No one expects you to fly to Mars tomorrow. And that's true every single day. It's true today. It'll be true tomorrow. It was true yesterday. It was true 10 years ago. It will be true 10 years from now. So if no one really expects you to fully achieve your goal, all you have to do is kinda look li…

Where does this view of EA come from? Hatchet jobs written by TIMES and its ilk? Twitter personalities like Elon Musk who have so much social gravity that people perceive them as the spokesmen of anything they mention that you hadn't heard of before?

Google "effective altruism" and the first two results are EA/Giving What We Can and GiveWell. Both of these organizations are meta-charities that help forward money or encourage the forwarding of money to other charities, but most of all... Mosquito nets! The first charitable fund mentioned by EA/Giving What We Can is GiveWell's, and the top recipient of that fund is the Malaria Consortium.

I heartily encourage you to read about GiveWell. It's still the heart of EA from the perspective of the less-vocal majority of self-described EAs.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#147
post #6

Back in my day effective altruism was mainly about finding charities that aren't essentially scams (way harder than it looks). Scene has apparently moved on to other things since I followed it a decade or so ago.

I guess GiveWell still does that, but I'm not really sure what everyone else in the movement does.

Dustin Moskovitz's Good Ventures also seems to focus on more "prosaic" issues like medical research/direct cash transfers/animal welfare.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#148

Surprised they didn't mention Dan Price. He should be the poster boy in all this. Some people smelled his $70k/yr bullshit a mile away, most people refused to believe it because it was a great story. Wonder where his supporters are now that there's a felony case against him with multiple accusers.

Is Dan Price associated with effective altruism?

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#149
For anyone that actually read the article, idk how much criticism there is for EA, but rather seemed more like a expose on how the Bay Area EA culture is heavily polyamorous with men abusing job connections to pressure women. Seems more like a Bay Area thing than an EA thing. I’m not sure though as I am not involved in any of these…

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#150
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be clear, you're arguing for donating for whatever your gut tells you, rather than trying to maximize benefit? Yes. Don't overthink it and end up trying to colonize Mars instead of buying the homeless guy down the street a sandwich.

But where do you draw the line at "overthinking"? I agree that "don't help the homeless guy down the street in favor of funding AI alignment research" is a bit unintuitive, but keep in mind that "don't help homeless guy in favor of helping 100 random guys in africa" is also unintuitive (at least to the extent that we needed a whole movement to popularize it). I'm not saying that AI alignment research is actually the…

To quote the movie Stalker,

'My conscience wants vegetarianism to win over the world. And my subconscious is yearning for a piece of juicy meat. But what do I want?'

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