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Is remote work bad for the economy?

fractional.work

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Re: Is remote work bad for the economy?

#141

Post by theshrike79 »

thefz wrote: post #122

Heard the "but what will restaurants in the city centre do?" argument while discussing with a local politician. I argued that this way maybe restaurants, grocery shops and other activities can flourish back in small towns that are now relegated as dormitory. Three months later, the same administration sent out a package against the depopulation of small towns (we live in the Alps so that's a real issue) This is the s…

All the money I spent on lunch in the city centre restaurants I've spent on restaurants close to my home.

I consider that as a win-win, supporting local businesses.

Re: Is remote work bad for the economy?

#142

Post by kwhitefoot »

carabiner wrote: post #119

Such a straw man article. He ignores the main argument against WFH which is that people are walking their dogs or doing yoga instead of actually working. I take long naps. I know I'm less productive but I can't help it.

That's an argument against you working from home. My experience was that I worked just as effectively at home and had two hours a day extra that I could use for exercise, relaxing, and in fact a bit of extra work.

Re: Is remote work bad for the economy?

#143

Post by mejutoco »

badpun wrote: post #132
chii wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This obviously is a financial loss for the economy it's not, because the money that was otherwise spent (wasted) can now be deployed else where. Otherwise, why not increase the GDP and economy, by periodically just breaking every window? The replacement is gonna cause huge growth!

> it's not, because the money that was otherwise spent (wasted) can now be deployed else where. Not neccessarily, people have less costs now, so some people can now just choose to work less - which would shrink the economy.

Having less costs is not clear to me. Might be assuming commute with a car (very US-centric). Paying for all the coffee, snacks, lunch, proper office setup might not always be expensed by the employer and incur extra costs. But let's say, on average, it is true that now employees have less costs because of working remotely.

Lower costs could have other consequences, other than people working less: general inflation; inflating rents/property prices; lower salaries for the same job; longer working hours (officially or not)

I think what you mention is one possible effect, but there are many and it is not clear which one dominates.

Re: Is remote work bad for the economy?

#145

Post by Dave3of5 »

I'm not reading another article about remote work because they all make my mind bleed but when anyone is reading remember this:

Remote work as existed for a long long time.

The pandemic made more people and companies go remote but it's been there like forever.

In context of ycombinator almost all start-up companies that have ever existed will have extensively used remote workers are the start phase of their companies.

Re: Is remote work bad for the economy?

#146

Post by fnomnom »

perceptronas wrote: post #106
smackeyacky wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on who you are shaming. The whole "ZOMG stop eating avocado toast and buy a house already" thing directed at young people is disgusting.

I think there is some truth to that. My parents went to eat out like once a year for quite a while. They saved as much as they could and succeeded at that.

but the multipliers were also different. with saving a house was realistically affordable for a single income household. today? in many regions not at all unless you save 20 years or have a windfall event like an inheritance

Re: Is remote work bad for the economy?

#148

Post by lynx23 »

mejutoco wrote: post #139
HPsquared wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really about the money itself but the amount of work done. If people get less work done, that's less value added. Less 'stuff' is produced but the same wage is paid - regardless of what happens with inflation. Whether that's good or bad is another question, as is the question of whether it even is happening or not.

It seems false to assume that people work less when working remotely. That is far from obvious. I personally think it is false, and have not seen any justification of it. I understand arguments about people not eating business lunch near the office. Although it looks like home delivery and extra home office snacks, coffee, etc. would also cause spend, just in different areas as before. Additionally, in places where t…

I recently listened to a casual conversation between two women talking about their husbands WFH behaviour. The general undertone was: "Yes, he can now do this or that time-consuming hobby because he can claim WFH while actually driving from A to B". Just an anecdote, I know, but this is not the first time I overheard people cheering over the personal advantages of WFH.

Re: Is remote work bad for the economy?

#149

Post by tempestn »

midoridensha wrote: post #116
tempestn wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad you included that last line. I agree with you that managing a remote team or running a remote business has challenges that an in-person one doesn't. (I've been running AutoTempest with an all-remote team for almost 14 years now.) Managers who rely on the 'butts in seats' heuristic will struggle a lot with managing remote employees. However, the opportunities are also massive. For one thing, the owners/manage…

>You can also hire from anywhere, which is huge in terms of finding talented people. This is a negative for many businesses: their employees can get poached by competitors far away that offer better pay or benefits or working conditions.

True, but it's still a net benefit for good companies. And it's not like it means you're competing with FAANG on every hire. There are far more developers out there (including very good ones) than those companies can employ. Especially now when most are looking to downsize instead!

Re: Is remote work bad for the economy?

#150

Post by theshrike79 »

maxfurman wrote: post #69
Spivak wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do cities and states attract well paid remote workers. To me WFH aligns the incentives exactly right in this case. You attract workers by being a good place to live. Have stuff human people care about -- parks, playgrounds, schools, restaurants, nightlife, recreation, arts, theater, music, food, yada yada. Instead of right now where the strat is to get a critical mass of well-ish-paying businesses and then ever…

You do see the irony that jobs at places like restaurants and theaters cannot be done remotely, right?

The restaurants and theaters don't need to be a hour's drive away from where the workers and customers live.

US zoning is shitty because it doesn't allow stores or restaurants in residential areas. But if that could be fixed, you could have a corner store and a diner/restaurant within walking distance of your home.

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