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Tell HN: Confluent laying off 8% of staff

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Re: Tell HN: Confluent laying off 8% of staff

#141

Post by ramesh31 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #132
mcv wrote: post #24

I really get the feeling that many companies are just blindly doing whatever other companies do. One starts large layoffs, and suddenly everybody is doing it. At other times, when one goes on a hiring spree, they all go. One tries to reduce salaries, they all do. One pays enormous bonuses, and they all do. It's like CEOs aren't really thinking for themselves, just copying whatever the market does.

I don't know about Confluent, but I can tell you that sales (and therefore revenue) have seen significant drops in most industries. This is wholly expected in a rising rate environment. When sales drop, revenue also falls. When revenue falls, models get re-evaluated and numbers get re-calculated. Reducing expenses becomes a priority. When reducing expenses becomes a priority, SaaS contracts get evaluated very closely…

>When reducing expenses becomes a priority, SaaS contracts get evaluated very closely. Unnecessary seats are removed. Contracts are re-negotiated. Income for SaaS companies like Confluent drop rapidly, and they may continue to drop more.

This has been a long time coming. Some of the numbers I have been seeing for these contracts are truly mindblowing for the value delivered. The days of gouging enterprise on these random non-critical SaaS integrations is probably over.

The one that still really gets me is Slack. Even medium sized companies are paying millions per year for a glorified IRC client. It just doesn't add up.

Re: Tell HN: Confluent laying off 8% of staff

#142

Post by rozim »

phumberdroz wrote: post #99
hallarempt wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. They never are. A recent study investigated this and neither stock price nor productivity nor profitability improved. All mass layoffs do is crater employee morale. And yes, it's a "others are jumping into the lake with their clothes on, let's get our brooks brothers shirts wet, too" thing without any rational cogitation involved..

Do you have a link to that study would like to share that with someone.

This may lead you to it: https://news.stanford.edu/2022/12/05/explains-recent-tech-la...

Re: Tell HN: Confluent laying off 8% of staff

#143

Post by whymauri »

throwaway24124 wrote: post #133
InTheArena wrote: post #56

Oh my sweet summer child.... As someone who lived through the .COM crash and implosion and then 2008, any company with "strong cash reserves" and "trajectory to profitability" is not making more money than they are spending. They are, to use the SV term - losing runway. This is catastrophic because it's infeasible to raise money right now to extend the runway. If the plane is not airborne (making significantly more m…

So I work for a company with "strong cash reserves" and "trajectory to profitability", and I was a child in 2008. We haven't done any layoffs yet, but it's definitely possible. Any advice for someone in my position with no recession experience?

Interview.

Re: Tell HN: Confluent laying off 8% of staff

#144

Post by giaour »

hallarempt wrote: post #84
ajkjk wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it inconceivable that layoffs are the right choice for a business?

Yes. They never are. A recent study investigated this and neither stock price nor productivity nor profitability improved. All mass layoffs do is crater employee morale. And yes, it's a "others are jumping into the lake with their clothes on, let's get our brooks brothers shirts wet, too" thing without any rational cogitation involved..

Layoffs may have second order cost saving effects (e.g., reducing competitive upward pressure on salaries, discouraging staff from asking for raises), but those seem impossible to measure

Re: Tell HN: Confluent laying off 8% of staff

#145

Post by reaperducer »

mcv wrote: post #24

I really get the feeling that many companies are just blindly doing whatever other companies do. One starts large layoffs, and suddenly everybody is doing it. At other times, when one goes on a hiring spree, they all go. One tries to reduce salaries, they all do. One pays enormous bonuses, and they all do. It's like CEOs aren't really thinking for themselves, just copying whatever the market does.

I really get the feeling that many companies are just blindly doing whatever other companies do.

You are correct. And for some reason they call themselves "leadership."

Re: Tell HN: Confluent laying off 8% of staff

#146

Post by aleksiy123 »

britzkopf wrote: post #138
CydeWeys wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some businesses, sure. Some of the big tech companies that are doing layoffs though (like Google) are just fine financially, and are losing two decades' worth of employee morale and goodwill for a temporary stock bump that is already dissipating. Memegen is a firestorm, and everyone is now talking about the importance of being on safe projects and staying away from experimental/unproven ones. That's going to hurt Goo…

What is memegen?

A google internal meme generating+sharing page.

Re: Tell HN: Confluent laying off 8% of staff

#147

Post by ajkjk »

hallarempt wrote: post #84
ajkjk wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it inconceivable that layoffs are the right choice for a business?

Yes. They never are. A recent study investigated this and neither stock price nor productivity nor profitability improved. All mass layoffs do is crater employee morale. And yes, it's a "others are jumping into the lake with their clothes on, let's get our brooks brothers shirts wet, too" thing without any rational cogitation involved..

That seems absurd. I've worked at big companies. They sometimes have staff, often _lots_ of staff, like whole orgs, that are a net drain on the company. What's the alternative in that situation?

Granted, getting into that situation was probably "executives making stupid mistakes" -- seems like it usually is -- and granted, they're probably not saying "we have to do these layoffs because I was an idiot last year", and they're probably not taking commensurate pay cuts. But still. It can certainly and obviously be good for the company's health to have fewer people on its payroll.

Re: Tell HN: Confluent laying off 8% of staff

#148

Post by hbrn »

vasco wrote: post #62
WhatsName wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's wrong. If everyone is doing something irrational that is a big inefficiency in the market and whoever does the opposite eg. hiring will get better outcomes as opposed doing it when all do.

Yeah but in general if you're trying to minimise disaster instead of maximising being the winner, you opt for doing things that avoid revealing you as the being the only wrong one. Being wrong in a crowd is fine. Being the only one wrong is a big deal, "what were they thinking, they knew better than everyone else?!". If everyone does the same mistake, it's just shrugged off as "honest mistake, everyone was doing it."…

Being wrong alone means you had a flawed thought process.

Being wrong in a crowd means you have no thought process at all.

All the big companies doing layoffs are in the stagnation phase. "minimise disaster instead of maximising being the winner" is exactly that.

Re: Tell HN: Confluent laying off 8% of staff

#149

Post by iKevinShah »

mcv wrote: post #24

I really get the feeling that many companies are just blindly doing whatever other companies do. One starts large layoffs, and suddenly everybody is doing it. At other times, when one goes on a hiring spree, they all go. One tries to reduce salaries, they all do. One pays enormous bonuses, and they all do. It's like CEOs aren't really thinking for themselves, just copying whatever the market does.

Possible, but it could also be that they see / foresee / know that upcoming quarters are just down (in terms of revenue or whatever their respective KPIs are).

The reality however,could be somewhere in the middle as always, IMO.

Re: Tell HN: Confluent laying off 8% of staff

#150

Post by lotsofpulp »

mcv wrote: post #85
ajkjk wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it inconceivable that layoffs are the right choice for a business?

It's not inconceivable, but it's weird that everybody is doing it at the same time even when the company is perfectly healthy.

Do not play to where the ball is, play to where the ball will (might) be.
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