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Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

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Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#141

Post by astura »

autoexec wrote: post #122
astura wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you don't like to tip, there are plenty of restaurants where tipping isn't expected; specifically those where you carry the food yourself from the counter to your table These places still ask for a tip. Even to-go only places practically demand tips. I was recently told by a friend that it was just as socially expected to tip for counter service as it is to tip at a sit down restaurant.

Your friend is crazy, or rather it seems they fell victim to the scam. Businesses want you to tip for counter service because you're helping to pay for their labor expenses and they get to pocket the difference. The person behind the counter hopes that you'll tip because they were told when they were hired that tipping would help make up for their low wages. They want to push the perception that society thinks you sh…

I don't agree with my friend, but she was incredibly outraged that I choose a tip of zero at a donut shop, this is how this came up. If you're being intellectually honest there's no logical justification for why a server "deserves" a tip and counter staff don't.* Half the time the server isn't even the one physically bringing you your food/drink - that's often done by a runner or a bus boy.

Because the entire tipping culture is based upon shame if a non-insignificant amount of people feel that they are expected to tip whenever asked for a tip, it ends up being the the same as if there was an actual social obligation to tip. Then there can become one.

*There actually is a social obligation to tip counter staff - only if you're ordering an alcoholic drink though.

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#142

Post by autoexec »

astura wrote: post #141
autoexec wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your friend is crazy, or rather it seems they fell victim to the scam. Businesses want you to tip for counter service because you're helping to pay for their labor expenses and they get to pocket the difference. The person behind the counter hopes that you'll tip because they were told when they were hired that tipping would help make up for their low wages. They want to push the perception that society thinks you sh…

I don't agree with my friend, but she was incredibly outraged that I choose a tip of zero at a donut shop, this is how this came up. If you're being intellectually honest there's no logical justification for why a server "deserves" a tip and counter staff don't.* Half the time the server isn't even the one physically bringing you your food/drink - that's often done by a runner or a bus boy. Because the entire tipping…

Waitstaff put in more time bringing food (if they do that, but tips are pooled anyway), topping off drinks, handling odd requests, and then taking care of checkout. They also make $2 an hour while the person handing doughnuts gets at least minimum wage which seems like a good justification for hitting 0% at the bakery register.

You're right about bartenders being the exception. That I tend to view more as an outright bribe for better drinks and faster service which is honestly not ideal either.

I do think businesses are taking advantage of our guilt and conditioning to try to normalize tips where they never existed before. Hopefully your friend can be brought around to see that. The fewer people who accept it, the slower it will spread. I really hope "tip creep" pisses people off enough that we start to question the entire culture of tipping.

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#144

Post by bena »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #117
bena wrote: post #10

People I will not listen to about the necessity of tipping culture: people who work in a restaurant and benefit from American tipping culture.

Most folks working in restaraunts don't "benefit" -- in several states their hourly wage is $2.13 an hour plus tips. If no tables come in then that's literally all you get. Their "benefit" is, occasionally, a living wage. There are a handful of very hot, busy venues with high prices and turnover, but those are the exception, not the rule. FAANG salaries vs. the average IT / tech worker. See also: https://www.dol.gov/…

Yes, I know how tipped wages work. However, I've never seen servers advocate for just working under normal minimum wage laws. That's a complete non-starter for them. And their reasoning is that they make more with the tipped system.

So, no, I don't think I'll listen to people in the restaurant industry tell me why I have to pay mystery wages to the employees.

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#145

Post by jzb »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #68
jzb wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If I had bad service, I should not be obligated to tip. But society has decided that I owe a 15-25% service fee to my waiter even if the service sucked." I wish folks with this attitude got docked some of their pay when their co-workers or boss decide they weren't happy with their work. I just consider tipping the surcharge for not having to do service / restaurant work myself any longer. Been there, done that, don'…

> I wish folks with this attitude got docked some of their pay when their co-workers or boss decide they weren't happy with their work. That's unnecessarily hostile. I worked customer service up to a year ago, and I never felt obligated to tips. I did my job and got my money. Every once in a while, a customer would tip me for good service, but it was never required. Tips were on top of my wages, not part of them. > I…

“That's unnecessarily hostile.”

Ha! It’s hostile if it’s coming out of your pocket. It’s okay if it’s someone else’s. Got it.

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#146

Post by jzb »

josephcsible wrote: post #104
jzb wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If I had bad service, I should not be obligated to tip. But society has decided that I owe a 15-25% service fee to my waiter even if the service sucked." I wish folks with this attitude got docked some of their pay when their co-workers or boss decide they weren't happy with their work. I just consider tipping the surcharge for not having to do service / restaurant work myself any longer. Been there, done that, don'…

The equivalent of not getting a tip is not getting a bonus. It isn't having your base pay docked.

Service jobs tips are part of base pay. Especially wait staff that make below minimum wage.

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#147

Post by rubyist5eva »

version_five wrote: post #47
rubyist5eva wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Friend of mine started driving for Door Dash recently and when he told me they can see up front what the tip is going to be I was just flabbergasted. That's not how it's supposed to work, at all.

I had never heard that before, and now that I have I won't ever use them again.

I double checked with him just to make sure, and he confirmed with me that he can see the tip.

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#148

Post by astura »

autoexec wrote: post #142
astura wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with my friend, but she was incredibly outraged that I choose a tip of zero at a donut shop, this is how this came up. If you're being intellectually honest there's no logical justification for why a server "deserves" a tip and counter staff don't.* Half the time the server isn't even the one physically bringing you your food/drink - that's often done by a runner or a bus boy. Because the entire tipping…

Waitstaff put in more time bringing food (if they do that, but tips are pooled anyway), topping off drinks, handling odd requests, and then taking care of checkout. They also make $2 an hour while the person handing doughnuts gets at least minimum wage which seems like a good justification for hitting 0% at the bakery register. You're right about bartenders being the exception. That I tend to view more as an outright…

>They also make $2 an hour while the person handing doughnuts gets at least minimum wage which seems like a good justification for hitting 0% at the bakery register.

False! In my locale waitstaff make the same (high) minimum wage as everyone else.

Re: Why Tipping Is Impossible to Get Rid of in America

#149

Post by nicolashahn »

banannaise wrote: post #63

"Customers looked at the higher prices ($25 for the chicken instead of $21, $17 cocktails instead of $14) and ordered fewer and less-expensive items, even though they were paying exactly the same amount for them by tacking 20% onto the check at meal’s end. It’s just economic reality: lower posted prices with added fees will encourage people to spend more money because the posted price is what gets stuck in their head…

Terrible idea. What incentive do restaurants have to increase their wages to make up for lack of tips? They restaurant owners are already not getting the tip money. Net effect is just going to be poorer servers and richer restaurant owners.
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