Explore Wikipedia's New Look • Hacker News Board

Re: Explore Wikipedia's New Look

#141

Post by ashton314 » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 12:41 AM UTC

nsajko wrote: post #52

ashton314 wrote: post #7

My initial take: I actually like this a lot. The body text is narrower which makes for easier reading. The sidebar with an updating highlight of current place in document is really nice too. I don't mind the "wasted space": Wikipedia is primarily about reading, and any well typeset book or web page should have generous margins so the line length is not too long.

Text width is important, but this is not a solution, zooming and changing browser window geometry is.

I think if you really want full-width text, you could write a little custom CSS to make it work how you want it. As it stands, I think the new design is a much better default for most people.

Also, zooming and changing browser window size is, while only a keystroke away, isn’t something I want to do just to make a site that should be optimized for reading text more legible. It should just default to that way.

In short, I’m sorry this doesn’t fit your flow. That’s frustrating. But I think this is a better design. Matthew Butterick’s Practical Typography seems to support this view. [1] (MB is a lawyer, typographer, and Racket programmer for those not familiar with his work.)

[1]: https://practicaltypography.com/page-margins.html#on-the-web

Re: Explore Wikipedia's New Look

#142

Post by jdlrobson » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 12:49 AM UTC

trynewideas wrote: post #133

phs318u wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really should be the top comment on this post. Incredibly useful, and the last link shows that most of these skins are being actively maintained.

All of those skins are open source and their repos are browsable on Wikimedia's Gerrit. Here's good old MonoBook: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/plugins/gitiles/mediawiki/ski... For most old Wikimedia-maintained skins, the maintenance commits are largely automated build and translation changes, though they do still keep them kind of viable for modern features like notifications, or major architectural changes. For ex…

Hey there, developer here and I can confirm that we are still actively maintaining those skins and preserving them. We have around 101 skins that work with MediaWiki and 7 skins deployed in production.

You might be interested in the sections "WE MADE IMPROVEMENTS TO BACKWARD COMPATIBILITY" and "WE IMPROVED THIRD-PARTY SUPPORT" on https://jdlrobson.com/posts/2023-01-17_the-new-wikipedia-app... which have a few more links that might be of interest.

Re: Explore Wikipedia's New Look

#143

Post by retox » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 12:50 AM UTC

I wish the search was better, you basically have to know the exact spelling of the thing you're looking for, and there doesn't seem to be any partial word results.

Re: Explore Wikipedia's New Look

#144

Post by trynewideas » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 12:58 AM UTC

jdlrobson wrote: post #142

trynewideas wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those skins are open source and their repos are browsable on Wikimedia's Gerrit. Here's good old MonoBook: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/plugins/gitiles/mediawiki/ski... For most old Wikimedia-maintained skins, the maintenance commits are largely automated build and translation changes, though they do still keep them kind of viable for modern features like notifications, or major architectural changes. For ex…

Hey there, developer here and I can confirm that we are still actively maintaining those skins and preserving them. We have around 101 skins that work with MediaWiki and 7 skins deployed in production. You might be interested in the sections "WE MADE IMPROVEMENTS TO BACKWARD COMPATIBILITY" and "WE IMPROVED THIRD-PARTY SUPPORT" on https://jdlrobson.com/posts/2023-01-17_the-new-wikipedia-app... which have a few more li…

Hey! What happened with the AFBTL a11y feedback on focus-order issues, like closing or hiding the language menu throwing focus back to the top of the page, or the ToC menu problems? Those seemed like a11y dealbreakers, but they made it through to GA.

Re: Explore Wikipedia's New Look

#145

Post by autoexec » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 1:03 AM UTC

wolpoli wrote: post #37

I don't like the extra padding that every designer is adding into every web site and application. I need to keep multiple sites/apps on my screen as I need to look at references, work on my tasks, and communicate with others. but every designer thinks I should maximize their site/app. It's forcing me to resize and move windows all the time.

Even when I only have one maximized window up I hate all the empty white space. I've taken to just zooming in until the text fills the window. The new design handles the zoom so much better than the old one.

Re: Explore Wikipedia's New Look

#146

Post by autoexec » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 1:09 AM UTC

spartanatreyu wrote: post #136

psacawa wrote: post #6

Good: - Sidebar for navigation Bad: - Wasted screen space - Other languages are not available as a simple anchor tag anymore. They are hidden behind elements. It's annoying for readers who consult their own language and en.wikipedia.org in the same session. It breaks my bookmarklet to change languages, which depended on something like `document.querySelectorAll('a')`

> Wasted screen space Don't fall for that mental trap. White space is not wasted space.

Not always, but it often is. Zoomed to 200% the new design is fine though. Content fills the entire screen and the floating table of contents disappears. Works for me at least.

Re: Explore Wikipedia's New Look

#147

Post by Wowfunhappy » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 1:11 AM UTC

kitsunesoba wrote: post #81

gpm wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mac OS (and some linux desktops) seems to really expect you to manage windows by having them always be full screen and swiping between desktops. Which makes changing browser window geometry sub-optimal. Even on desktops where it's reasonably easy, it's pretty annoying to have to resize the window when you go to different sites to get them to format properly.

> Mac OS … seems to really expect you to manage windows by having them always be full screen and swiping between desktops. Which makes changing browser window geometry sub-optimal. That hasn't been my experience at all, in fact for me macOS works better when windows are mostly sized to fit their content. Windows and Windows-like Linux DEs is where I feel pressure to maximize everything.

I agree. Anecdotally, I also see more PCs with maximized windows in the wild, and more Macs with smaller windows. (I don't really see many people using Linux in the wild.)

Re: Explore Wikipedia's New Look

#148

Post by pontsun » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 1:12 AM UTC

mike_d wrote: post #68

psacawa wrote: post #6

Good: - Sidebar for navigation Bad: - Wasted screen space - Other languages are not available as a simple anchor tag anymore. They are hidden behind elements. It's annoying for readers who consult their own language and en.wikipedia.org in the same session. It breaks my bookmarklet to change languages, which depended on something like `document.querySelectorAll('a')`

> - Wasted screen space Don't worry, it will soon be filled with solicitations for donations.

And if they ever decide to add side banners you could probably permanently disable them in your preferences, just as you can disable the top banner asking for donations.

Re: Explore Wikipedia's New Look

#149

Post by Wowfunhappy » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 1:15 AM UTC

Not that it matters to most people, but I'm surprised this didn't break the Dictionary app on my 10-year-old version of OS X (10.9 Mavericks). Wikipedia inside the Dictionary app looks basically identical to how it did a week ago, even though aiui it's basically just rendering the Wikipedia page (in a now terribly outdated browser engine) with some custom CSS. I wonder why it's still working.

Re: Explore Wikipedia's New Look

#150

Post by autoexec » Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 1:27 AM UTC

Willish42 wrote: post #76

> Research has shown that limiting the width of longform text leads to a more comfortable reading experience, and better retention of the content itself. Is this actually true? I'm curious if anybody has sources for this and if it's a common UX practice. I tend to use wider windows than traditional 8:9 half-screens and this max-width practice drives me nuts.

I guess it depends on the person. I'm happy to accept that I'm strange, but I'd much rather read lines that mostly fill my screen with normal margins on each side than short lines in a long narrow column surrounded by an ocean of empty whitespace.

I can't be the only one who feels this way. I have yet to buy a book where 90% of each page is blank and there's just a tiny column of words down the middle of the page.