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Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

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Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#141

Post by slavboj »

tzs wrote: post #122
slavboj wrote: post #61

School attendance is reliably associated with student suicide rate. We know it's causal because the association tracks random variations in the school year (snow days and make-up days, teacher strikes, differences in district calendars, etc). So forgive me if I believe their concern to be less than genuine. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/childrens-risk-of...

You seem to be assuming that they can't be concerned with more than one problem simultaneously. You also seem to be assuming that addressing social media problems in schools won't help address the suicide problem. You also seem to be assuming that they aren't already doing something to address the suicide problem.

Unlike the entirety of the tech system, the school system is ipso facto in charge of the school system's own operation. I'm sure Altria is working real hard on a non-cancerous cigarette too.

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#142

Post by spritefs »

finnh wrote: post #62

Seattle Public Schools has seen enrollment drop 30% (!!!) over the past couple years because it is an utter shambles [0]. (correction: many schools have that level of decline or higher, but the decline district-wide is much lower). Cancelling as many advanced classes as possible, without grandfathering, so (eg) my two sons were both forced to repeat a year of math when they cancellled year-up math. An administration…

> Cancelling as many advanced classes as possible

I wish someone would compile a list of every school district that's doing this or planning on doing it, just for public knowledge purposes

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#143

Post by matheweis »

slavboj wrote: post #61

School attendance is reliably associated with student suicide rate. We know it's causal because the association tracks random variations in the school year (snow days and make-up days, teacher strikes, differences in district calendars, etc). So forgive me if I believe their concern to be less than genuine. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/childrens-risk-of...

Yes. NBER recently published some similar stats in the context of the lockdowns:

> suicides among 12-to-18-year-olds are highest during months of the school year and lowest during summer months

> returning [post lockdowns] from online to in-person schooling was associated with a 12-to-18 percent increase teen suicides.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w30795

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#144

Post by dragonwriter »

EarlKing wrote: post #96
lazyasciiart wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a "problem" that has a fairly clear solution: students with behavioral issues tied to use of social networking services that are disruptive to school functions can and should be expelled. Problem solved. That's not the problem, and that would be a poorly targeted and illegal solution if it were. You can't expel a child from public school for having a mental health problem.

And I'm sure you can point to the statute that violates. I'll wait.

> And I'm sure you can point to the statute that violates. I'll wait.

Federally, Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1974 and Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Besides that, Washington State Constitution, Art. IX, § 1.

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#145

Post by spritefs »

travisgriggs wrote: post #48

Lots of comments about this being the wrong group of people to initiate this. Others playing the “is it really the same thing” card. I find myself torn. They are often sound/reasoned arguments. But I also struggle because the state of play isn’t right either. Social media engagement is now one of the leading causes cited in divorces. My wife and I of nearly 30 years have to battle this ourselves. Something seems clea…

> Social media engagement is now one of the leading causes cited in divorces.

Where'd you find this?

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#146

Post by 29083011397778 »

spritefs wrote: post #145
travisgriggs wrote: post #48

Lots of comments about this being the wrong group of people to initiate this. Others playing the “is it really the same thing” card. I find myself torn. They are often sound/reasoned arguments. But I also struggle because the state of play isn’t right either. Social media engagement is now one of the leading causes cited in divorces. My wife and I of nearly 30 years have to battle this ourselves. Something seems clea…

> Social media engagement is now one of the leading causes cited in divorces. Where'd you find this?

There are multiple articles written about it [0-2], but they all seem to cite the same (single) study.

[0] https://www.anylaw.com/media/2021/07/18/study-finds-that-fac...

[1] https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/facebook-has-become-a-lead...

[2] https://www.socialmediatoday.com/content/social-cheating-inc...

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#147

Post by travisgriggs »

luckylion wrote: post #84
travisgriggs wrote: post #48

Lots of comments about this being the wrong group of people to initiate this. Others playing the “is it really the same thing” card. I find myself torn. They are often sound/reasoned arguments. But I also struggle because the state of play isn’t right either. Social media engagement is now one of the leading causes cited in divorces. My wife and I of nearly 30 years have to battle this ourselves. Something seems clea…

What is it you're hoping for? Prohibition, so people cannot use social media platforms because they're outlawed? I don't think that'll work, for the same reason prohibition doesn't work for anything that a large part of the population wants. And what even is social media in that sense. Aren't forums social media? HN has a score and you and other will be told how "the community" values your comments. Sure, it's not em…

I don’t know what I’m hoping for. I stated that in my original: “struggle with remedies.”

HN can be addictive. So can playing with legos. So can honeycombs.

But the highly mechanized addiction that occurs on some platforms is not just the baseline level addiction. It is highly engineered addiction for focused financial gain. I consider it akin to the tricks played by the tobacco industry over the years.

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#148

Post by poulsbohemian »

DueDilligence wrote: post #81
poulsbohemian wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>seems like the school board have no standing That was exactly my reaction. If Bob Ferguson (WA AG) wanted to pursue such a case, he / the state would have standing - and as far as I know, the school board asking the state and getting other school boards involved in such a case would be the more powerful approach. This is Seattle though, with its particular political leanings, and/or it could also be a bit of a Hail…

.. chiming in: Bob has indeed been looped in since this suit was on the table four years ago - and participated in person to the 3 meetings where this suit was on the agenda. I have heard his comments and discussion first hand. I know there to be at least two of his staff handling this suit. It is common for these types of well-executed lawsuits where the named-party is a public entity - for the relevant legislative…

Doesn't surprise me given his previous suit against Facebook (IE: The reach of social media is an active concern of the state). Likewise, Bob and I have mutual friends and this very much sounds like the kind of thing he'd have the pulse on. For that matter, it sounds like you have some hands-on info here - maybe you and I run in the same meatspace circles ;-D.

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#149

Post by ClumsyPilot »

sien wrote: post #65

Teenagers have changed. There are a load of interesting stats about what has changed. From 1994 to now. Percent with a driver's licence has gone from 84.7% to 72.7%, tried alcohol fro 81% to 66.1%, gone on dates from 83% to 58% and had a job from 71.7% to 55% https://twitter.com/AlecStapp/status/1611500829441138688 Maybe less dates and less independence from adults is what is driving up depression. But it might be ha…

teenage pregnancies, time outside, sex, and general freedom are all down

Re: Seattle Public Schools sues TikTok, YouTube, Instagram over youth mental health

#150

Post by niij »

fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #108
LarryMullins wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok offers their service to people they know to be teenagers, during school hours, when those teenagers are inside the school building (with TikTok's tracking of users, they surely know it.) I don't expect this lawsuit to succeed, but it's not entirely without merit and I do think the school district has some standing if for no other reason than because TikTok is serving videos to, and accepting uploads from, stud…

Since Google/Apple have location services data on the phone, map databases that know where schools are, and the ability to limit use of specific apps or the entire device, do you figure they are similarly liable? It would seem a lot easier to have the platforms solve the problem once than delegate it out to be solved a millions times by every app in the store.

Or the schools could make and enforce rules without relying on tech companies to make decisions for them? This is so ridiculous.
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