I am surprised at these power bills, at least in my area the implied "savings" are 2-3 times what my bill is on any given month. Huge house maybe?
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Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
141–150 of 510 posts
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#142Assuming you are grid-tied, the reduction of electric bills is predicated on net metering, where the utility company gives you (ideally) 1-for-1 credit for the electricity you produce. In California, this was called NEM 1.0 and NEM 2.0. Every few years the California utilities lobby the Public Utilities Commission (PUC) to chip away at the NEM program. This year the PUC voted unanimously to cut net energy metering an…
If there’s no net-zero metering, aren’t they incentivizing people to be completely disconnected from the grid, or at least not incentivizing them to be connected? (Which is bad for the grid.) Why would I fuck around with the utility at all if I’m installing enough solar/battery to power my needs?
because very likely you won't have enough solar/battery to power your needs...
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#143> The unsubsidized all-in price for buying and installing the panels was $25,525.43... after counting this $6,636.61 tax credit, the subsidized price was $18,888.82 Looks like a 7 year return on investment after subsidies, 10 years without.
That is technically true, but why is no one asking how and why his electricity bill is $223 at minimum, plied higher since the bill was only reduced by that amount. Also, “subsidies” are really just a quaint term for “made the working and lower middle class that can’t pay for such exorbitant luxuries pay for it through taxes and inflation”. I’m always a bit confused if seemingly otherwise smart people simply don’t un…
> I’m always a bit confused if seemingly otherwise smart people simply don’t understand something so basic
Are you surprised, truly? All right, I’ll play along.
We have a progressive tax system. So the majority of the costs are born by the wealthy and the well-off, rather than the working class. Some of the well-to-do got that way by grit and hard work; others by luck; and at least a few by fraud and worse. They’re the winners of a somewhat-arbitrary game, and I don’t see anything wrong with tweaking the rules in pursuit of a collective good, like wider solar panel deployment.
Meanwhile! We know that most industries have quite dramatic learning-by-doing and returns to scale. And yet in this fallen world transaction costs and imperfect information can prevent new technologies from getting enough scale practice to become economically viable. So temporary subsidies in the early stage have a good chance of bringing costs down for everyone.
I’m very glad to be the first to introduce you to these arguments, if I am. You don’t have to agree: I left my mind-control goggles in my other coat. But please, don’t play dumb.
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#144Assuming you are grid-tied, the reduction of electric bills is predicated on net metering, where the utility company gives you (ideally) 1-for-1 credit for the electricity you produce. In California, this was called NEM 1.0 and NEM 2.0. Every few years the California utilities lobby the Public Utilities Commission (PUC) to chip away at the NEM program. This year the PUC voted unanimously to cut net energy metering an…
Net metering just doesn't make sense though. Everyone who wants to rely on the grid for power availability ought to pay for grid upkeep costs. Net metering would make sense if it came on top of a baseline "connectivity fee" that covered grid maintenance, but that's not the current policy, would likely be politically infeasible, and would hurt rooftop solar customers financially anyway.
Subsidizing solar is a perfectly good policy choice, but net metering is ultimately an unsustainable way to implement it.
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#145Assuming you are grid-tied, the reduction of electric bills is predicated on net metering, where the utility company gives you (ideally) 1-for-1 credit for the electricity you produce. In California, this was called NEM 1.0 and NEM 2.0. Every few years the California utilities lobby the Public Utilities Commission (PUC) to chip away at the NEM program. This year the PUC voted unanimously to cut net energy metering an…
Over the last 8 quarters their average profit margin is a whopping 3.25%. If you think that’s just too high I’m not sure what to tell you.
An alternate way to look at the CA rule change is that CA needs more installed storage to shore up the shitty grid, and incentivizing people to install solar alone via net metering isn’t a great idea anymore. Remember that peak power demand is right around and just after sunset.
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is technically true, but why is no one asking how and why his electricity bill is $223 at minimum, plied higher since the bill was only reduced by that amount. Also, “subsidies” are really just a quaint term for “made the working and lower middle class that can’t pay for such exorbitant luxuries pay for it through taxes and inflation”. I’m always a bit confused if seemingly otherwise smart people simply don’t un…
Perhaps instead of being angry that people are using taxes that come from the working class, instead you should ask why the wealthy aren't paying their share of the taxes? And nobody pays for anything with inflation. That's not how inflation works.
"The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (38.8 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (29.2 percent)."[1]
How is that not paying their share?
[1] https://taxfoundation.org/publications/latest-federal-income...
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
In Austin I'd like to see some studies on solar vs tree coverage. My empirical evidence would suggest that great tree coverage alone keep the inside livable on 100f+ summer days. On my house without trees I could barely keep some of the rooms cool.
That makes me wonder if the installation of solar panels on a roof act as "shade" similar to partial tree coverage in some way, since in many cases they add a thin cushion of shaded air between the panel and the roof. I wonder if that provides any meaningful shade or temperature reduction. Not making an argument either way, I just hadn't really considered if this was a factor until I read your comment.
It does. Not in Texas but Australia and one of he rooms that got solar became slightly cooler after it was installed on those very hot days.
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#148>Realizing that the solar company was in quite the pickle insofar as repossessing the panels would require costly legal actions on top of paying people to take out the system, I just waited on the payment. They would contact me periodically asking me to make payment and offering to help me get approved for a new loan. But I just ignored all of that. Seems pretty unethical tbh. The solar company delivered, but now thi…
Based on his explanation, the company has at least some level of fault: > my non-payment would not be a default because default is defined by a breach of contract and no such contract existed. Indeed, if anyone breached the contract, it was the solar company by not installing in the six-month period.
but they did install it in the 7th month, and we see no real hardship applied to the author, perhaps save for $200 per month lost opportunity for savings (less interest applied, would have to think that through more) ...
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#149Assuming you are grid-tied, the reduction of electric bills is predicated on net metering, where the utility company gives you (ideally) 1-for-1 credit for the electricity you produce. In California, this was called NEM 1.0 and NEM 2.0. Every few years the California utilities lobby the Public Utilities Commission (PUC) to chip away at the NEM program. This year the PUC voted unanimously to cut net energy metering an…
Because net metering is forcing the utility to purchase power at the retail rate. It doesn't make any sense. It isn't a profit margin issue. There is a massive infrastructure and expense to deliver wholesale power to an individual customer and it has to be recouped. Either you sell back your power at some percent of wholesale or solar installs need to get a corresponding increased delivery fee.
This is all rather bizarre. If PG&E charges 30 cents/kWh for a marginal kWh delivered, then either something is quite wrong with the pricing model or it really does cost some respectable fraction of 30 cents/kWh to get a marginal kWh through their system into their distribution network where the customer is. If it's the latter, then reduction of 1 kWh delivered should save them the same amount of money.
I think the real issue is that the pricing is almost completely divorced from the actual cost structure, so the whole rate system is a kludge that gives everyone the wrong incentives.
Re: Solar panels reduced my electric bill in 2022
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
how much is your bill and what's the breakdown of electricity costs (how many kwhrs) vs mandatory grid fees? (regulatory and connection fees)
Hottest month for me was aug, I paid around 161 ~$135 1190kWh (charged at ~$0.114 / kWh) ~$10.50 tax ~15.50 other fees/riders which can not be recouped with panels OP is somehow paying ~25c/kWh, though I have to believe they are counting the connections fees etc in their estimate, based on natl averages they would be an outlier for most states. https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/
That's wild. I live in an extremely hot and humid part of the country, in the Gulf Coast; probably the area with the highest AC demand in the summer. I routinely exceed $300 a month in the hotter months.
Do you have a particularly small or recently-built, well-insulated house?