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GPT-4 could pass bar exam, AI researchers say

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Re: GPT-4 could pass bar exam, AI researchers say

#141

Post by mdp2021 »

ben_w wrote: post #136
mdp2021 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

-- Pseudo Detective Del Spooner: "Can a robot lift that object?" -- Pseudo Sonny: "Can you?" -- Pseudo Detective Del Spooner: "Ha-ha. So what the #!@! is a robot doing there, not doing what is required? I cannot, and I do not stand there clueless" What is being engineered, toys for the satisfaction of some idle decadent sympathy urge? Have cats disappeared from the world? > We're discrediting We are shocked that an o…

> if you do not implement it or its origin, it will not be there. Who created ours? And if it's god (which god?), who created theirs ?

We are talking about engineering things.

If you want to implement it directly, good;

if you want to implement what will spawn it, good;

if you want to implement an "[evolutionary] genetic algorithm" as said spawner - so that the population of the entities in need to find solutions in the solution space will progressively develop a model of said world and a logic that works in it -, good.

If you built a mannequin and wanted to call it a woman... Bad.

Re: GPT-4 could pass bar exam, AI researchers say

#142

Post by forgetfulness »

mdp2021 wrote: post #139
forgetfulness wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And many among the Average Joes will not measure up to this ideal man of science and art. In truth you'll see that I'm not advocating for the rights of as-of-yet non-sapient computer programs, but to think of what this means about people . If we're setting the bar of personhood or dignity to being exceptional researchers and engineers, it doesn't bode well for the masses that aren't and won't be. Maybe this will resu…

> You're already dismissing concerns about the welfare of the merely average This writer individually: no, not literally «dismissing», it is just that I could not grasp precisely your point in this specific area. And I would say, as I wrote just earlier, «Inability to recognize intelligence is and will be devastating»: it already happens that an inability to discriminate ("It takes it to see it") will hide from the s…

Invoking the image of the woman that may have been denied opportunities because of her gender in the 1950s is an emotional appeal to convince oneself that inside every human is a latent Leonardo da Vinci.

Re: GPT-4 could pass bar exam, AI researchers say

#143

Post by w1nst0nsm1th »

AI seems to be the next financial buzzword, after crypto, gig economy, CDO, dotcom, and so on.

I have seen a video a few days ago saying we are coming out of data era and entering the 'Knowledge Era' thank to AI where knowledge is following a logarythmic path. A 'revolution', a 'paradigm shift', and other bubblebabble.

Who was telling that ? A 30 years old startup CEO wearing... a t-shirt and a jeans... You see the pattern.

I'm not an AI specialist, but for what I know, current AI are nothing more than fine tuned statistic algorythm.

Here a is a short french video with english subtitles from arte, the german-french public cultural television, about a painting coming from Midjourney : https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/110342-003-A/the-world-in-imag...

The video explain very well what AI are able to do (and consequently what they can't do) if you listen (read) carefully what the art historian say about the painting, which received the first price of 2022 collorado art festival.

In short, the painting is nothing new by itself but a patchwork of elements from different period of art history. In other word a statistic average of previous painting, photography, drawing, etc... based on the artist prompts in midjourney.

Not to say the painting is aweful, I personnaly find it's beautiful and could happily put it in my living room, but it definitively shows how current AI works, commented by an historian art specialist which has no ball in AI game.

Re: GPT-4 could pass bar exam, AI researchers say

#144

Post by Workaccount2 »

Aperocky wrote: post #53
Workaccount2 wrote: post #25

I feel like I can now see the event horizon of commoditized intelligence. No idea what society (is "society" even the right word? Who knows) is going to look like on the other side of it, but it is going to be wildly different. Perhaps a brief period where everyone is using an AI to do their job, uh, I mean, assist their work, but beyond that it's unknowable. Moreover, this looks like it is going to be happening soon…

GPT has no reasoning ability, it has billions of parameters that make it pretend it has it, purely going off of previously digested material. As long as it comes across some reasoning process that have not been seen before in the training wordset, which can be as easy as a middle school math question, it fails. Because it has no ability to extrapolate logic. If it manages to pass Bar test, that says more about the Ba…

Until someone can point out the difference between neuronal reasoning and silicon reasoning, I remain completely agnostic about the underlying mechanics of whatever model.

Gun to my head where I had to put money down, I would put it on "Brains are not nearly as special as we (they?) think they are." No fairy dust or supernatural beings required, brains are just another AI model (and likely not even a particularly great one).

Re: GPT-4 could pass bar exam, AI researchers say

#145

Post by mdp2021 »

forgetfulness wrote: post #142
mdp2021 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're already dismissing concerns about the welfare of the merely average This writer individually: no, not literally «dismissing», it is just that I could not grasp precisely your point in this specific area. And I would say, as I wrote just earlier, «Inability to recognize intelligence is and will be devastating»: it already happens that an inability to discriminate ("It takes it to see it") will hide from the s…

Invoking the image of the woman that may have been denied opportunities because of her gender in the 1950s is an emotional appeal to convince oneself that inside every human is a latent Leonardo da Vinci.

A million times no:

the point was very definitely not about «hav[ing] been denied opportunities», the idea of the relevance of a «gender» and gender issues is completely only thrown in by the reader, that of the «1950s» confirms misunderstanding because the point was not localized in space and time:

I very literally stated that "you can set the bar to" «just a good grandmother». The reference to «exceptional researchers and engineers» related to the grandmother was just that "you do not need a Professor, but something that has the basic requirements - good sense, intelligence - to become one in case, suffices.

It is not the bar "«of personhood or dignity»" as the poster originally proposed: it is the bar to be a proper social actor. And it is a requirement that has always been there, and which today is in the highlight, given that some are advancing the idea that a pseudo-parrot may suffice.

"Good sense" should better return as a definite Value.

Re: GPT-4 could pass bar exam, AI researchers say

#146

Post by w1nst0nsm1th »

xyzelement wrote: post #42
microtherion wrote: post #24

IF it could (I wouldn't know one way or the other), I'd consider that a damning indictment of the Bar Exam failing to test for sentience, rather than evidence of GPT-4 having attained the same.

Bar exam is not a test of sentience but of the ability to recall, interpret, and apply the law. Because law is an entirely textual thing, I would expect GPT to be exceedingly well suited for it. I've said for a long time that most doctors and lawyers are just databases with quick and imperfect retrieval.

In english based common law system, a judge can take an original decision on a specific case, such decision entering then the rules of law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law#Basic_principles_of...

An AI based on a statistic algorithm (that what AI are) would not be able to make such a decision.

Re: GPT-4 could pass bar exam, AI researchers say

#147

Post by curriculum »

evouga wrote: post #95
microtherion wrote: post #24

IF it could (I wouldn't know one way or the other), I'd consider that a damning indictment of the Bar Exam failing to test for sentience, rather than evidence of GPT-4 having attained the same.

Right. Would we be impressed if a layman could pass the bar, given infinite time and access to the entire Internet (including the copious amount of bar exam study guides and worked example problems)? If not why are we impressed that a language model trained on that data can? Meanwhile when I ask ChatGPT which of six numbers are odd, it confidently reports a mix of even numbers, odd numbers, and letters. This is a fun…

Along the same lines, asking

> How many words are in the sentence "This is a test of artificial intelligence"?

yields an answer of:

> There are 8 words in the sentence "This is a test of artificial intelligence."

(There are 7).

Re: GPT-4 could pass bar exam, AI researchers say

#148

Post by ben_w »

mdp2021 wrote: post #141
ben_w wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you do not implement it or its origin, it will not be there. Who created ours? And if it's god (which god?), who created theirs ?

We are talking about engineering things. If you want to implement it directly, good; if you want to implement what will spawn it, good; if you want to implement an "[evolutionary] genetic algorithm" as said spawner - so that the population of the entities in need to find solutions in the solution space will progressively develop a model of said world and a logic that works in it -, good. If you built a mannequin and…

Do genetic algorithms create human intelligence directly, or do they create the capacity for a human brain to develop it?

I genuinely don't know if anyone knows the answer to that.

But I do know the perceptron is a toy model of an organic neuron, and that deep learning is a toy model of larger structures such as a cortical column.

And I do know some AI (not sure about GPT in particular) are trained via genetic algorithms.

You appear to be awfully confident we haven't implemented intelligence, even by the standard stated in your reply.

Re: GPT-4 could pass bar exam, AI researchers say

#149

Post by w1nst0nsm1th »

fwsgonzo wrote: post #18
preommr wrote: post #4

How soon before this qualifies as a public defender? Gonna put this on my dystopia bingo.

I knew we were going to replace 9/10 doctors and 9/10 lawyers the same day I got to try ChatGPT. It's just a matter of time - whoever does it properly first. I am talking about the first line of defense here, like a chat bot. Courtrooms will probably still work the same way for a long time. It's not like most lawyers or doctors are great. Most are completely average - which is fine. Not everyone wants to read the lat…

I met a belgian doctor that knows what pubmed is, what sci-hub is, and use regularly the first one.

Needless to say I will stick to her if I can.

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