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SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

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Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#141

Post by JumpCrisscross »

barbazoo wrote: post #48
Eisenstein wrote: post #35

> Southwest Airlines ticketing agents, cashiers at Nando’s Chicken, low-wage call center workers for Verizon overseas, become corporate sin eaters This is why it is a good idea to be nice to the people you deal with on the front lines, and write a very politely worded letter to the head of the department at the company you are dealing with, and potentially letters to their boss, and their boss, etc. Mail it, if possi…

How would you go about finding out how to access the manager of some department within MegaCorp? All one can do these days is fill out some contact form and maybe someday getting an email from some noreply email address. I'm also chuckling at the thought of me mentioning that I'm a stock holder. This feels very detached from reality.

> How would you go about finding out how to access the manager of some department within MegaCorp?

You don’t. You write a generic letter and copy their regulators. If you’re nice, you give them a heads up over e-mail with the threat super explicit.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#142

Post by SnowHill9902 »

adriancr wrote: post #124
teeray wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> automated call center asks you to state your issue, does speech to text, does a stupid prompt and close I usually just talk complete nonsense to these prompts (but valid English sentences). That way the automation gives up when it can parse the sentences but can’t intuit meaning from them.

last time i tried that i got a 'please repeat' a couple times and call closed. On the other hand, calling a bank and saying you'd like to report fraud to the prompt directs you really fast to customer support.

If you don’t really have a fraud case to report, you are actually reporting fraud on yourself. Think about it.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#143

Post by standardUser »

phpisthebest wrote: post #93
woodruffw wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem here is that workers now want to be "paid properly" (what ever that means) and still get tips. One sensible metric is that you should be able to support yourself while living in the area you work (or an area nearby such that it isn't a significant financial hardship or timesink to commute to work). Service jobs largely fail on that metric, effectively using government money and family support structures…

I am not sure how that is a "sensible metric", how would you even begin to create a wage around that? What is "supporting yourself" even mean? Does a teenager need to make the same wage as a mother of 3? if there are 2 20yo waitstaff one is a single mother living alone, and the other is guy living in his parents basement should one be paid differently due to their life situation? This is problem with basing wages on…

The concept of a living wage is not new and it is calculated and used by many governments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_wage

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#144

Post by Waterluvian »

osigurdson wrote: post #110
kadomony wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a business is pushing for tips (those dumbass Toast POS consoles that now often start tipping at 20% ), the workers are underpaid. Tipping is getting out of control, and businesses just need to pay more. Tipping is a stupid concept. Japan has the number three economy in the world and they'll refuse tips. Watch https://youtube.com/watch?v=V4sbYy0WdGQ&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE and tell me that he's wrong.

I really dislike tipping. I can’t remember the last time that service was so amazing that a tip was required. Of course, I’m not sure I would be happier if the bill was the same with the tip component removed. I suppose it does give the consumer some leverage if the service was horrible. I think I’ve just convinced myself that tips are ok.

Those who are punished by not tipping are unlikely to be the exclusive cause for poor service.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#145

Post by jen20 »

throwawaysleep wrote: post #87

Do people seriously prefer the agent to the app or the waitress to the app? You would rather wait in line or wait to be checked on than do something right away?

It’s contextual.

At the airport (Houston, specifically), I prefer to use the self-service tablet as it’s more convenient.

At restaurants I will not order via toast (or similar), since it requires an account. If that is the only option, I will leave.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#146

Post by standardUser »

kova12 wrote: post #118
woodruffw wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem here is that workers now want to be "paid properly" (what ever that means) and still get tips. One sensible metric is that you should be able to support yourself while living in the area you work (or an area nearby such that it isn't a significant financial hardship or timesink to commute to work). Service jobs largely fail on that metric, effectively using government money and family support structures…

In many places low wage workers commute into HCOL areas. Being able to live in Manhattan on waiter's earnings is wishful thinking. Waiters are dime a dozen, and it's ridiculous to suggest they could possibly be making enough to live with mega high earners

> Being able to live in Manhattan on waiter's earnings is wishful thinking.

That's factually untrue and kind of an absurd statement. Of course people live in Manhattan working as servers.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#147

Post by woodruffw »

jen20 wrote: post #117
woodruffw wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, nice areas shouldn't have restaurants? I don't know how you got to that, other than by assuming that nice areas have to be expensive. The fact that SF is unable to achieve both is an indicator of broken local markets and politics, not an ironclad rule for every other locality. Edit: Another framing is that "nice" and "fancy" are different things, as much as extremely unequal markets like SF distort the distinct…

> other than by assuming that nice areas have to be expensive This is generally the case. I can’t think of a single counter example.

What's your qualification for "nice"? For me, it's decent public infrastructure, convenient access to both basic goods (groceries) and "light" luxuries (restaurants, bars), and a broad lack of concern that I'm going to be victimized by a crime.

Most of the US satisfies these constraints, especially if you own and don't mind driving a car.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#148

Post by NegativeK »

8bitsrule wrote: post #33

>The waiter hasn’t been replaced by an iPad, they’ve been replaced by you. I've noticed as well that in grocery-store lines. Where customers are being conditioned to patiently wait in long lines to be next at the checkout machines. To wave their purchases over lasers, then pack them into each and every bag they'll pay for. Be careful what you put in the bagging area! the machines' metallic voices shriek at the custom…

Your experience with self-checkout is drastically worse than mine.

I use it because it's always faster than the cashier lines unless those are empty, which they never are.

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#149

Post by gnicholas »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #84
joshstrange wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Not only is tipping a scourge but it doesn't even try to hide what it is, you paying the worker for doing the minimum. In a lot of apps/websites you have to enter a tip before any service is rendered and you have no option to change it later if the service is bad. For some services like Uber Eats/DoorDash I've heard that orders will just sit on a shelf because the tip isn't high enough to entice someone to "c…

> For some services like Uber Eats/DoorDash I've heard that orders will just sit on a shelf because the tip isn't high enough to entice someone to "claim" that order. Tipping is mandatory if you want to get your food in any reasonable timeframe. On the other hand, I was recently doing searches for "food near me" and the UberEats / DoorDash delivery fees were under $1. I'm not really pleased that useful search results…

Where are you based? Here in SV I've never seen delivery fees like that. They always tack on at least $5 in mandatory fees, to say nothing of their inflated pricing (versus ordering direct from the restaurant).

Re: SouthwestAirlines' Meltdown Shows How Corporations Pit Consumers Against Workers

#150

Post by lazyasciiart »

gruez wrote: post #133
joshstrange wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like hell. Also as a consumer I have absolutely zero information on how busy drivers are, if my tip needs to be > $X to get picked up faster, if more drivers will login if I tip $X or greater, nor do I have a way to increase my tip if drivers aren’t “biting”. IF I had that information/ability I’d concede to part of your point but I don’t and even if I did I hate that idea with a fiery passion. If that’s t…

>Also as a consumer I have absolutely zero information on how busy drivers are, if my tip needs to be > $X to get picked up faster, if more drivers will login if I tip $X or greater, nor do I have a way to increase my tip if drivers aren’t “biting”. Why do you expect that the app won't have such information displayed? The UX isn't hard. It seems pretty trivial to show a bid/ask chart of delivery prices, along with st…

> Why do you expect that the app won't have such information displayed?

I've used them. They don't. You seem to be conflating a description of how things are today with how things could be run instead.

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