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Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

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Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#141

Post by robswc »

jasmer wrote: post #111
Bombthecat wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortnite made 4 billion Each Year You think that will change future behavior? I doubt it.

$520M is a pinch, I can assure you it will change their behaviour in some ways. I worked at a company where this happened, the legal polices that came afterwards were actually prohibitive. We couldn't shit without a lawyer. CEOs have bosses and they don't like to lose money like this - it's a 'headline' loss as well, making it feel worse. What remains to be seen is the nature of the change because so often it's just…

They may have already made the changes. I started playing again and I've found they're pretty damn fair with pricing. You can "earn" the currency to buy the skins. I never really buy much though but at least it feels fair.

I also never got "confused" about purchasing things but this is 2022 UI/UX.

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#143

Post by lapcat »

GeekyBear wrote: post #133
galleywest200 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did get their money back, so that point still stands. They just happened to have their accounts banned for this. However, this situation is likely due to corporate America's toxicity towards chargebacks which are commonly issued due to the corporation's incompetence or malice.

No, the point would stand if you could get a refund, cancel subscriptions, and withhold personal data from app developers without retaliation. The app store allows these sorts of things today. If you have other priorities, other device options exist.

> If you have other priorities, other device options exist.

There are a number of factors and tradeoffs involved in deciding whether or not to buy an iPhone. Let's not pretend it all comes down to one and only one thing.

Not to mention that Android sideloading is kind of crappy and limited. Much more limited than Mac or Windows "sideloading". People seem to forget that Epic is suing Google too.

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#144

Post by wilg »

bioemerl wrote: post #108
dagmx wrote: post #65

Epic’s own PR statement on this is worth a read https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/news/epic-ftc-settlemen...

There are so many immidiate contractions in this thing it makes my head spin. Like one section here says "no loot boxes since 2019 and never gambling" Loot boxes are gambling. "We respect our players by making our game pay to win" But when we breed a culture of bullying and use behavioral science to get you to purchase cosmetics, that's fine. Slimy, the whole game industry is slimy.

Loot boxes are generally not considered gambling because you don't wager anything and don't win money. They are very much like a kids version of gambling though!

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#145

Post by abakker »

ethanbond wrote: post #115
burnished wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a difficulty here is that a lot of responders are imagining that all children are the same precocious 13 year old they were -forgetting the trusting 8 to 10 year olds they also were, and they are doing that thing where the edge cases start to dwarf the primary purpose in their minds.

Yeah apparently on the one hand, setting the default to Off would absolutely clobber Fortnite's engagement metrics and the law is unjust for this. On the other hand, setting the default to Off would not make a dent in children's usage of this product and therefore the law is useless.

Who cares about their engagement metrics? Like, what societal good does it do? I’m not sure the law is unjust because a company’s (non financial) metrics are impacted when the law acts as intended.

For the record, I’m pro games and against pearl clutching game ratings and “for the children” style laws, but I’m also not very sympathetic to big companies profits being a motivation for our lawmakers.

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#146

Post by GeekyBear »

lapcat wrote: post #143
GeekyBear wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the point would stand if you could get a refund, cancel subscriptions, and withhold personal data from app developers without retaliation. The app store allows these sorts of things today. If you have other priorities, other device options exist.

> If you have other priorities, other device options exist. There are a number of factors and tradeoffs involved in deciding whether or not to buy an iPhone. Let's not pretend it all comes down to one and only one thing. Not to mention that Android sideloading is kind of crappy and limited. Much more limited than Mac or Windows "sideloading". People seem to forget that Epic is suing Google too.

I remain unconvinced that you have a point here. Perhaps you could offer some specifics?

I prefer to deal with a platform that puts the interests of the customer ahead of the interests of the vendor.

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#147

Post by lapcat »

GeekyBear wrote: post #146
lapcat wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have other priorities, other device options exist. There are a number of factors and tradeoffs involved in deciding whether or not to buy an iPhone. Let's not pretend it all comes down to one and only one thing. Not to mention that Android sideloading is kind of crappy and limited. Much more limited than Mac or Windows "sideloading". People seem to forget that Epic is suing Google too.

I remain unconvinced that you have a point here. Perhaps you could offer some specifics? I prefer to deal with a platform that puts the interests of the customer ahead of the interests of the vendor.

> I remain unconvinced that you have a point here. Perhaps you could offer some specifics?

Surely you're not claiming that literally the only reason to buy a $799.00 iPhone is to get a $7.99 refund on an IAP? I suspect that you yourself can think of other reasons.

Design? Durability? Features? Technology? Compatibility/Ecosystem? I mean, what's the reason to buy an Apple Mac, which isn't locked down to the App Store?

In my personal opinion, the crApp Store is the worst part of iPhone, not the best part.

> I prefer to deal with a platform that puts the interests of the customer ahead of the interests of the vendor.

Let me know if you find one LOL.

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#148

Post by [deleted] »

wilg wrote: post #144
bioemerl wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many immidiate contractions in this thing it makes my head spin. Like one section here says "no loot boxes since 2019 and never gambling" Loot boxes are gambling. "We respect our players by making our game pay to win" But when we breed a culture of bullying and use behavioral science to get you to purchase cosmetics, that's fine. Slimy, the whole game industry is slimy.

Loot boxes are generally not considered gambling because you don't wager anything and don't win money. They are very much like a kids version of gambling though!

[deleted]

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#149

Post by bioemerl »

wilg wrote: post #144
bioemerl wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many immidiate contractions in this thing it makes my head spin. Like one section here says "no loot boxes since 2019 and never gambling" Loot boxes are gambling. "We respect our players by making our game pay to win" But when we breed a culture of bullying and use behavioral science to get you to purchase cosmetics, that's fine. Slimy, the whole game industry is slimy.

Loot boxes are generally not considered gambling because you don't wager anything and don't win money. They are very much like a kids version of gambling though!

I would say that anything using skinner's box style methods to encourage people to repeat an action, and when there is money involved in that process at all, for example if you can buy the results of the loot boxes or you can buy the loot boxes themselves, it's gambling.

Epic allowed you to purchase loot boxes and get a random chance to get the thing you wanted as a result.

If it's something you can't pay for and it's intended to be a part of the way the game works, it's not intended to push you into spending money or anything like that, that's fine. Loot boxes are fun at the end of the day. That's not what this was though, this was gambling.

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#150

Post by P5fRxh5kUvp2th »

ethanbond wrote: post #117
zamadatix wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“I am 18+” is a well known joke as well and you can’t get purchased alcohol/weed without ID before it shows up (well, legally) because that’s when people realized they need a real measure not a fake one for show. That the FTC would know there is no reasonable way would be a strong indicator it is indeed not a reasonable law. The default is definitely why Fortnite got fined, and is a reasonable reason to be fined, but…

I don't even know what point you're trying to make now. Changing the default will certainly reduce the number of kids who are subject to toxic game chat. FTC knows it, I know it, you know it, and Epic knows it.

I hate this word but it's about consent. If an 8 year old enables voice chat they're consenting to the shit that comes out of it. They may not fully understand what they're getting into, but that's a different issue.

perfect is the enemy of good here, the other poster is arguing that because it's not perfect and is easily circumvented that it will have no effect, and, as you said, we all know this isn't true.

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