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TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

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Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#141

Post by FieryTransition »

squarefoot wrote: post #24

Hopefully we'll do something like that here in the EU too. We're experiencing the hard way how's like depending on the energy and resources of warmongering criminal dictators; it would be wise to start moving away from technological dependence on China asap.

We are already on the way, as the EU is securing investments of 43 billion euro for the semiconductor industry[0]. We also have ASML, which TSMC are heavily relying on, since no one makes the machines they do.

[0] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/thinktank/en/document/EPRS_BR...

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#142

Post by girvo »

formerly_proven wrote: post #84
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How leading edge will Intel's Germany fab be when it's finished? 10nm++? While TSMC will be on what, 1nm by then? Intel's PR link doesn't go into details on this.

Intel's "10nm+" (non-EUV) processors compete rather fiercely with AMD's "5nm" (EUV) processors. The latter are weirdly not 2x better, not even close, on any metric. Hm.

While they may be powerful, and they definitely are, they’re pushing out quite a bit more heat and requiring a decent amount more power to get there.

Though it’s impressive how much efficiency they’ve squeezed out of that node regardless.

But to say that TSMCs process doesn’t confer large advantages is silly. Intel even uses them for their new discrete graphics cards — they wouldn’t have been able to compete otherwise (among other less interesting business reasons)

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#143

Post by ajross »

philliphaydon wrote: post #137
ajross wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taiwan is "Chinese" ethnically, being populated[1] by descendants of many waves of Han colonization over the last few centuries. Concern over "China" has nothing to do with ethnicity, it's a geopolitical fight with the government of the People's Republic of China, which does not[2] rule Taiwan. [1] To be clear: there are also descendants of indigenous "Taiwanese" living there, who are austronesian and not Han. Ethnic…

Where exactly does this “Han” stuff come from because most people in China are not actually han and those in Taiwan are not han.

I'm using what amounts to this definition, under which, yes, Taiwan and China are both majority Han: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Chinese

As stated, ethnicity is complicated and people everywhere want to have fights over these subjects. I won't engage, that's pointless.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#144

Post by lvl102 »

I find it comical that the US educates more than 90% of top engineers yet we don’t control 90% of crucial chip-making assets.

We need to implement some type of conditions for anyone seeking education here in the US especially in institutions that are backed by US tax dollars. We need to stop handing out education to the very people who are dead set on competing against our national interests. In other words, stop training the enemy.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#145

Post by mdp2021 »

lvl102 wrote: post #144

I find it comical that the US educates more than 90% of top engineers yet we don’t control 90% of crucial chip-making assets. We need to implement some type of conditions for anyone seeking education here in the US especially in institutions that are backed by US tax dollars. We need to stop handing out education to the very people who are dead set on competing against our national interests. In other words, stop tra…

> I find it comical

For that matter, it is similarly "«comical»" that if one wanted lean modular furniture (and not even "scientifically" covering every reasonable need) one has to go to the Swedes

> training the enemy

That is much more complex than those terms. For one, knowledge is transversal ("zero" is not e.g. a "cultural appropriation", etc).

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#146

Post by codedokode »

Why did TSMC agreed to give away the most important technology to a foreign country? It doesn't look like a choice one would do voluntary.

In my opinion, they should better give away some outdated technology like 45 or 65nm.

This reminds me of China which forced some Western manufacturers to transfer technology to them.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#147

Post by phpisthebest »

d3ckard wrote: post #123
phpisthebest wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Don't want to start a fight, but honestly, I only ever hear those types of arguments from people who don't use Apple hardware. People who do, in large majority, do it for two reasons: - build quality; - it mostly just works.

>>- build quality

This is part of the marketing delusion, multiple people have done A/B testing to clearly show Apple Build Quality is either on par with the rest of the industry or in many specific examples WORSE, people that claim this often have ZERO experience with non-apple products or are comparing different classes like a budget consumer level Lenovo to the pro line of apple, of course of $500 unit will be of less quality than a $2500 unit

For an example of poor build quality / engineering Check out Louis Rossmans' "Think Different" video where he outlines some of the various engineering problems Apple has had

>>- it mostly just works.

I see the often repeated, I have had android phone for decades and never had any issue with them, they just work as well. I am not sure what is "not working" on an Android, I can also say i have never had an Android phone that I had to hold "correctly" in order for the antenna to work...

Again I think this stems from comparing different classes of phone, Apple only makes Mid to High eng phones, (which is the market I am in for Android devices I tend to buy the Flagship from the manufacturer) they do not make budget and entry phone, these low end phones will have more problem. Would it be better to just price out entire segments of the population? That does not seem to be socially moral

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#148

Post by troad »

vetinari wrote: post #132
troad wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, you won't get iphone, porsche or gucci wares for that This is where your argument breaks down. Russia imports vast amounts of manufactured goods that it doesn't have the capacity to make itself, including basic military and basic consumer goods, and for which it needs something that their trade partners might conceivably want. Which ain't roubles, for the most part.

> that it doesn't have the capacity to make itself, including basic military and basic consumer goods, They do have capacity to fully cover their entire military needs. For consumer goods, they are trading with China, India and other countries in a mix of currencies, that includes rouble. The freezing of their USD and EUR assets was a huge mistake; it demonstrated to the world that such assets are not safe.

This just doesn't reflect reality at all. There are vast drops in the domestic production of things like cars (-85%), motors (-70%), and white-goods (-50%) due to a collapsed import chain. (Russian government source: https://rosstat.gov.ru/storage/mediabank/87_01-06-2022.html) Key economic indicators are flashing red - e.g. non-tax/oil tax revenues are down 20% YoY (Russian Finance Ministry figures from last week). If these are the official Russian government stats, it's likely the real numbers are much worse.

Cars and motors are dual use goods (so the collapse of Russian domestic manufacturing of them is militarily relevant), but even setting those aside and looking purely at single-use military goods, there's persuasive evidence that the Russian military is increasingly reliant on Iranian drones and equipment (https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2022/10/russias-use-ira...). Vast numbers of Russian equipment have been confirmed destroyed or captured by observers such as Oryx, and those are just the visually confirmed losses you can check the evidence for yourself (https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-docum...). No country would be able to replace those losses without switching to a full war economy, which Russia has not done (and which would only be a necessary but not sufficient condition for replenishing these kinds of losses).

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#149

Post by sofixa »

atmosx wrote: post #19
rjzzleep wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're also building a fab in Japan and that one seems to be progressing much faster. About the Invasion of Taiwan, I kinda doubt it. They just had local elections and the president Tsai said it would be a referendum on her stance against China[1]. IF that is really the case then it seems like the Taiwanese people have voted against being turned into another Ukraine.[2] I am not currently in Taiwan, but a couple of…

The US has less "skin in the game" now that the TSMC core tech can be found on US soil - that's what the parent and me are referring to. Taiwan is not able to defend itself without US aid. ps. I'm not in the valley and it's not about "hawkish" views, it is pure power-play.

> Taiwan is not able to defend itself without US aid.

If you look at a topographic map of Taiwan, it's not so obvious. Rough terrain coupled with the fact that an amphibious assault is needed to even get to Taiwan, and then the troops there need to be resupplied by sea and air (both of which require infrastructure which can be sabotaged), make Taiwan a very good defensive position. Of course it couldn't last forever without external help, but even on it's own it's plenty to cause a massive embarrassing bloodbath.

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