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German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

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Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#141
post #137
post #124

I'm not European, and maybe this is why I struggle to understand this, but why do people want regulators to say, "This doesn't comply with our regulations, so you aren't allowed to use it ?" I understand the hope is that companies will comply rather than forego the entire European market, but if they don't, the last consequence is ultimately on the consumer, not the company. It seems like the same type of thing as wh…

I want to have the podunk builder build my house however I want. What is with all those pesky building codes! Because they (the government) think it is the minimum required for a dignified, safe society. And they are placed in a position of power and must make those judgment calls, because that is their job. Why would people want that? Because they understand, in general, that government is important and don't want a…

> Because they (the government) think it is the minimum required for a dignified, safe society. And they are placed in a position of power and must make those judgment calls, because that is their job.

Ha, this is a naïve view of it. In the US, this is only kinda-sorta true. Building permits can often be a lucrative source of income for the city and sleazy inspectors who often come out without the faintest idea of what they are looking at.

It often turns into holding previously-recognized rights captive and selling them back for cash. People get angry real quick.

(My father owns a small business in fireplaces. The inspectors often are idiots, and the city charges hundreds of dollars, sometimes more. Total grift we have to suck up. So much so they sometimes ask us what to look for. I doubt the inspectors have stopped any residential fires, ever, in some of these cities.)

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#142
post #124

I'm not European, and maybe this is why I struggle to understand this, but why do people want regulators to say, "This doesn't comply with our regulations, so you aren't allowed to use it ?" I understand the hope is that companies will comply rather than forego the entire European market, but if they don't, the last consequence is ultimately on the consumer, not the company. It seems like the same type of thing as wh…

Are you serious or is this a strawman posted as a joke?

Just applying this to medicine, car safety, building codes and fire, food safety, industrial regulations saying 'you can't dump toxic waste around', etc etc makes me really surprised someone would actually hold such a bizarre opinion.

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#143
post #50

My personal favorite outcome of this would be a joint public and corporate funded leap in open source development. This would do much for the budget, privacy and probably also security of businesses and private users. A good example where this principle is already in use is the Matrix protocol.

AFAIK Nextcloud does have some funding from the EU. I've got an instance for file storage and notes, but more advanced stuff is pretty buggy and unstable in my experience

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#144
post #124

I'm not European, and maybe this is why I struggle to understand this, but why do people want regulators to say, "This doesn't comply with our regulations, so you aren't allowed to use it ?" I understand the hope is that companies will comply rather than forego the entire European market, but if they don't, the last consequence is ultimately on the consumer, not the company. It seems like the same type of thing as wh…

> I understand the hope is that companies will comply rather than forego the entire European market, but if they don't, the last consequence is ultimately on the consumer, not the company.

This is one hope sure but at least in Germany the simple thing about it is that people don't want to lose control over their data if they don't have to (we even have a word for it: "Datensparsamkeit" = data econonomy/thriftiness). If that means that some German company won't be able to use O365, so be it.

Only few here will care what happens to Microsoft because of this. It's not about Microsoft. It's about people who use it (and/or force you to use it).

I don't see a downside here. There are other solutions within the Microsoft product portfolio and outside.

The fact that a government agency looks it up and gives you a result saves you actually money because you don't have to hire somebody to check that for you and save you from lawsuits. It's a service you already paid for with your taxes. I don't see the problem here either.

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#145

These people keep acting like they're so clever for figuring this out, yet in reality all they're doing is giving death sentences to European companies by making them unable to use industry standard products.

Businesses operated just fine before O365 came along and they will operate just fine after O365, this is a pretty moot point. "But they can't use what they're using right now!" Yes, that's the point, because what they're using right now is breaking the law.

Businesses used Microsft office before 365 for decades now. In many industries all software integrates with office applications and with Microsoft pushing everything to 365 subs moving back to standalone office will be difficult enough.

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#146
post #124

I'm not European, and maybe this is why I struggle to understand this, but why do people want regulators to say, "This doesn't comply with our regulations, so you aren't allowed to use it ?" I understand the hope is that companies will comply rather than forego the entire European market, but if they don't, the last consequence is ultimately on the consumer, not the company. It seems like the same type of thing as wh…

For some reason it's a big national security concern when Chinese companies collect data on US citizens, but when Europeans apply the same caution with American companies, people across the Atlantic see it purely from a business perspective. Why is that?

This isn't TikTok and what people do on their private phones. This is a foreign company that has the capability to siphon off a lot of data about business decisions, businesses connections, contracts etc.

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#147
post #124

I'm not European, and maybe this is why I struggle to understand this, but why do people want regulators to say, "This doesn't comply with our regulations, so you aren't allowed to use it ?" I understand the hope is that companies will comply rather than forego the entire European market, but if they don't, the last consequence is ultimately on the consumer, not the company. It seems like the same type of thing as wh…

> I understand the hope is that companies will comply rather than forego the entire European market, but if they don't, the last consequence is ultimately on the consumer, not the company.

Essentially you are asking „why should a government expect anyone to follow the law“

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#148
post #124

I'm not European, and maybe this is why I struggle to understand this, but why do people want regulators to say, "This doesn't comply with our regulations, so you aren't allowed to use it ?" I understand the hope is that companies will comply rather than forego the entire European market, but if they don't, the last consequence is ultimately on the consumer, not the company. It seems like the same type of thing as wh…

I agree in principle, but not if it is applied to Microsoft 365 or GCP. If it’s my small business animal shelter, or my grocery store, or even just my little SaaS… leave me alone, please, from requirements like the Quebec translation law, or similar. Microsoft 365 is different. Odds are that there are dozens of businesses you interact with, who store their data in 365 without your knowledge. Microsoft 365 is a “in th…

Leave you alone to determine your own health code? To buy meat without proper paperwork? To hire children to work? Where is the border?

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#149
post #50

My personal favorite outcome of this would be a joint public and corporate funded leap in open source development. This would do much for the budget, privacy and probably also security of businesses and private users. A good example where this principle is already in use is the Matrix protocol.

There is already some work in progress to replace Office 365 with an free software stack for governments:

https://www.phoenix-werkstatt.de

Re: German privacy watchdogs conclude that Microsoft 365 is incompatible with GDPR

#150
post #124

I'm not European, and maybe this is why I struggle to understand this, but why do people want regulators to say, "This doesn't comply with our regulations, so you aren't allowed to use it ?" I understand the hope is that companies will comply rather than forego the entire European market, but if they don't, the last consequence is ultimately on the consumer, not the company. It seems like the same type of thing as wh…

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