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Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

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Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#141

Post by MivLives »

tppiotrowski wrote: post #113

I've never been sold on Gore-Tex. It's not a great value for most people. Shoes: good for a few outings (really nice on snow) but then lose their water repellency. If you have sweaty feet, your socks will get wet from sweat anyways. Just bring extra socks or wring them out periodically. Wool socks will feel warm even when wet. Jackets: great in a downpour but if you're wearing pants, all the water just rolls off your…

What is wild to me is the only brandname use of gore-tex I have on my wardrobe is a pair of Converse All Stars. Talk about a shoe that really does not need water proofing.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#142

Post by macNchz »

ericmathison wrote: post #126

Andy Skurka has a good writeup on why Gore-Tex is mostly hype: https://andrewskurka.com/why-im-hard-on-gore-tex-the-king-of...

I'm an avid hiker/backpacker/runner and tend to agree re Gore-Tex clothing, but I do like having it in footwear for hiking in wet areas. It very obviously doesn't breathe as well as advertised, and I'd never want to wear a GTX jacket or pants while working up a sweat, but on muddy 20+ mile hikes with friends whose breathable mesh trail runners got wet and stayed wet all day, my feet have always been in way better shape wearing GTX hiking shoes. For shorter, sweaty trail runs, though, I'd take the mesh over Gore-Tex all day.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#143

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

ericmathison wrote: post #126

Andy Skurka has a good writeup on why Gore-Tex is mostly hype: https://andrewskurka.com/why-im-hard-on-gore-tex-the-king-of...

I find that an immensely shallow write up.

Yes, GT is not 100% waterproof. It's also not breathable like cotton or untreated polyester.

However, the right path IMO is to compare GT to the alternatives, and when you do this it is absolutely clear to me that it's better. More waterproof than very breathable fabrics, more breathable than very waterproof fabrics. The former get you (very) wet from the outside, the latter get you (very) wet from the inside; GT gets you a bit wet from both.

Nobody has made the "perfect" fabric for wet conditions because it likely cannot exist. The fact that GT is not this mythical "perfect" fabric does not, for me, detract very much from it being measurably and experientially superior to the alternatives.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#144

Post by ComputerGuru »

refurb wrote: post #129
IsTom wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying that teflon is bad when ingested, but asbestos and glass are also chemically inert and it doesn't make them ok to ingest.

Asbestos is not chemically inert. That's why it causes cancer.

That’s not how it causes cancer. Its physical properties are incompatible with human biology.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#145

Post by s0rce »

chrisseaton wrote: post #123
jerlam wrote: post #82

Gore-TEX and other waterproof breathable (WPB) membrane fabrics are ridiculously oversold to people who don't spend much time outside. The amount of breathability they offer is ludicrously low compared to something like unzipping a jacket zipper or pit vent. If you're moving at all, a WPB jacket means that you'll be drenched from the inside due to sweat, and all that water repelled by your jacket ends up on your pant…

You shouldn’t move wearing Gore-TEX in my experience. If you stop and it’s wet you put it on while stopped. You take it off when you start moving again. If you’re moving you’re going to be wet anyway (sweat) so no point trying to stay dry from the outside. Best application is sleeping bag covers. Worst application is boots. Makes no sense.

That doesn't work in cold rainy conditions, you'll freeze without something to keep you dry, sweaty and warm is better than wet and hypothermic. You don't need breathable jackets but you need the waterproof.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#146

Post by s0rce »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #140
chrisseaton wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn’t move wearing Gore-TEX in my experience. If you stop and it’s wet you put it on while stopped. You take it off when you start moving again. If you’re moving you’re going to be wet anyway (sweat) so no point trying to stay dry from the outside. Best application is sleeping bag covers. Worst application is boots. Makes no sense.

Yep, goretex shoes are the height of stupid. If water ever goes over the top of the shoes, it is impossible for it to leave the shoe (since it is in liquid phase, not gaseous like water vapor).

They work well in certain conditions, melting snow or muddy trails for example.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#148

Post by snowwrestler »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #140
chrisseaton wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn’t move wearing Gore-TEX in my experience. If you stop and it’s wet you put it on while stopped. You take it off when you start moving again. If you’re moving you’re going to be wet anyway (sweat) so no point trying to stay dry from the outside. Best application is sleeping bag covers. Worst application is boots. Makes no sense.

Yep, goretex shoes are the height of stupid. If water ever goes over the top of the shoes, it is impossible for it to leave the shoe (since it is in liquid phase, not gaseous like water vapor).

The heat from your feet will drive the phase change and the water will evaporate through the Gore-Tex.

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#149

Post by refurb »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #144
refurb wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asbestos is not chemically inert. That's why it causes cancer.

That’s not how it causes cancer. Its physical properties are incompatible with human biology.

Yes it is. Asbestos has chelated iron in it that catalyzes free radicals that result in DNA damage.

Saying "Its physical properties are incompatible with human biology." is not an actual answer. What physical properties?

Re: Gore-TEX, a lightweight, waterproof fabric made from the expanded form of PTFE

#150

Post by lionsdan »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #121
userbinator wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PTFE is also used in implants specifically because it completely inert under normal conditions.

which sorts of implants? i know, for another example, some orthopedic screws are actually calcium which are made to reabsorb, which i have 3 of myself from an athletic injury repair by an NFL team surgeon (maybe relevant if the materials change for type of repair).

I have one of these plugging up a hole inside my heart.

https://www.goremedical.com/products/cardioform/septal-occlu...

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