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Mohammed bin Salman: Saudi leader given US immunity over Khashoggi killing

bbc.com

141–150 of 186 posts

Re: Mohammed bin Salman: Saudi leader given US immunity over Khashoggi killing

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case this is serious, we didn’t sue Hussain or Gadaffi out of office.

I think your reply is the joke, the Poster comment is making good point, Saddam Hussein & Gadaffi were removed by US war machine. It's just a war that suits the US.

> Saddam Hussein & Gadaffi were removed by US war machine

Right. Which is a red herring in a discussion about legal sovereign immunity.

Re: Mohammed bin Salman: Saudi leader given US immunity over Khashoggi killing

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me clarify some points at the risk of sounding like a Modi supporter. Modi had gone though investigations and was acquitted by the Supreme court of India. It was definitely failure of government mechanism and officials but not state sponsored voilence. " The Supreme Court on Friday dismissed allegations of "larger conspiracy" levelled by Zakia Jafri, widow of Congress leader Ehsan Jafri who was killed in the 2002…

How is investigation of Modi by "Supreme court of India" an independent investigation? It is the classic case of "we looked into our wrong doing and found nothing"

This is just an argument about definitions. "Independent" means "from a different power center".

Now, it is entirely fair to argue that that the powers in question are colluding in some way. But most states that haven't been subverted into authoritarianism have multiple actors with the power and (sometimes) will to investigate other ones.

I mean, if you take that argument far enough, no human could judge any other human, because none of them are "independent".

Re: Mohammed bin Salman: Saudi leader given US immunity over Khashoggi killing

#143

I think the headline is a bit misleading. "given" immunity to me implied that there was some deal or something where the US government proactively gave MBS immunity. What happened was the US State Dept determined he had immunity due to his current role as Saudi Arabia PM. Thus, my understanding is that this would be standard diplomatic immunity, no? And if MBS ever stopped being PM he would lose that immunity, as MBS…

This is what I understood as well. Any attempts to prosecute him would be expensive and futile. Even if there were some law that allowed for it, he could remove it overnight or "pass" a new law that gives him immunity.

Re: Mohammed bin Salman: Saudi leader given US immunity over Khashoggi killing

#144
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is problematic because one of the underpinnings of western liberalism is the notion of Rule of Law: that, at the end of the day, we are all bound to the same rules.

Relations between states and heads of states aren’t governed by laws determined by western liberalism, much as some would like that to be the case.

They are governed by the rules determined by whoever decides what the hell exactly "the rules-based international order" is — or rather they're not, much as some like that to be the case.

Re: Mohammed bin Salman: Saudi leader given US immunity over Khashoggi killing

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me clarify some points at the risk of sounding like a Modi supporter. Modi had gone though investigations and was acquitted by the Supreme court of India. It was definitely failure of government mechanism and officials but not state sponsored voilence. " The Supreme Court on Friday dismissed allegations of "larger conspiracy" levelled by Zakia Jafri, widow of Congress leader Ehsan Jafri who was killed in the 2002…

Are there any 'independent' agencies in Saudi? Is such a thing possible in an absolute monarchy?

I don't think it is an absolute monarchy, my understanding is the Saudi state is a web of fiefdoms of individual members of the royal family. The right hand doesn't always know what the left hand is doing, e.g. the 9/11 attacks.

Re: Mohammed bin Salman: Saudi leader given US immunity over Khashoggi killing

#146
post #14

Well, America’s superpower status rests on being the reserve currency for petroleum imports so, in reality, KSA has America in a vise. The US can’t do anything to antagonise KSA because the direct result will be KSA accepting currencies other than the dollar for petrol, which will lower the global demand for dollars, leading to devaluation of the USD leading to economic calamity. I’m sure MBS, Biden, Trump, Obama, Pu…

> America’s superpower status rests on being the reserve currency for petroleum imports No, it doesn’t. America’s economy and thus voters like cheap oil. America’s massive consumer and industrial base underwrites its currency’s power.

Why does international oil trade primarily happen in dollars then even when USA is neither of those countries nor is it the biggest trade partner for either of those countries?

Also, what industrial base?

Also, How does Srilanka holding dollars benefit from a strong US consumer market?

Re: Mohammed bin Salman: Saudi leader given US immunity over Khashoggi killing

#147

I really hope the world can accelerate it's adoption of energy sources that will replace oil. They aren't without their own flaws but besides Norway, I can't think of place where oil hasn't corrupted society in some major way.

Just wait until The Saudis figure out that they're a desert, and maybe instead of stupid line cities they should be building solar farms and long-range international transmission lines.

iirc long range transfer of electricity is extremely expensive and difficult. They might be able to supply power locally, but they wouldn’t be able to export to the west. Unless they used it to power manufacture of other fuel sources like green hydrogen.

Re: Mohammed bin Salman: Saudi leader given US immunity over Khashoggi killing

#148
post #5

The same happened to Modi, the PM of India, if my memory serves me right. He was banned from entering USA for his deeds, until he turned out to be the head of India. Apparently your only way out is to be the head of your state, if you have done something evil.

Let me clarify some points at the risk of sounding like a Modi supporter. Modi had gone though investigations and was acquitted by the Supreme court of India. It was definitely failure of government mechanism and officials but not state sponsored voilence. " The Supreme Court on Friday dismissed allegations of "larger conspiracy" levelled by Zakia Jafri, widow of Congress leader Ehsan Jafri who was killed in the 2002…

We all know how british royals are treated even though they commited genocide in India.

Power is what others respect. everything else is just BS

Re: Mohammed bin Salman: Saudi leader given US immunity over Khashoggi killing

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saudi is not a reliable or good ally and there’s no reason why the US should favor them over Iran.

Iran is not an ally, they're a sworn enemy that the democrats have imagined they can bribe into becoming a friend because they don't understand Iran's motivation is not money but religious ideology. It's the worst kind of political delerium - funding you enemies and your ally's enemies and then wondering why your allies aren't "reliable" - hint its you not being reliable while you're funding their enemies and trying…

Never said we needed to have Iran as an ally.

All of the major players in that region are motivated by religious ideology, including US allies.

You also seem to be confused, the JCPOA actively halted their nuclear weapons program, which was all that it intended to do, not “make iran into a friend”. Hawks like yourself are the ones who have set everything back.

The US should be less involved in the region. Seeking to balance power between Iran, Saudi and Israel rather than actively getting in the middle of their conflicts.

Re: Mohammed bin Salman: Saudi leader given US immunity over Khashoggi killing

#150

Maybe they should teach children in school from a young age how completely corrupt all of our institutions (government, private industry, science, religion, etc) are, rather than everyone having to slowly realize it as you get older.

Always wondered why we didn't do nursery rhymes anymore.

Once there was a prince.

Journals made him wince.

So he cut them into bits.

And was happy ever since.

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