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But, aren't you folks web2?

nadh.in

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Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#141

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

dist1ll wrote: post #15
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #9

> web3 is a broad wildcard term that seems to revolve around a large number of concepts including decentralisation, self-sovereignty, privacy, free speech, censorship, security, BigTech, BigGov, democracy, human rights That would cover Mastodon, right? And mastodon is not web3, in fact doesn't want to be associated with the term "web3", at all.

Mastodon is not decentralized, it's federated. So no, it wouldn't fit any common definition of web3.

> it wouldn't fit any common definition of web3.

To be clear, in my opinion, in summary, mastodon = "twitter without the centralised company", and web3 = "useless crypto shit".

So I don't need or want mastodon to "fit" web3. I'm just pointing out that the above proposed definition of web3 can't be right, as it fits something that thankfully isn't and doesn't aspire to being web3.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#142

Post by acdha »

dist1ll wrote: post #15
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #9

> web3 is a broad wildcard term that seems to revolve around a large number of concepts including decentralisation, self-sovereignty, privacy, free speech, censorship, security, BigTech, BigGov, democracy, human rights That would cover Mastodon, right? And mastodon is not web3, in fact doesn't want to be associated with the term "web3", at all.

Mastodon is not decentralized, it's federated. So no, it wouldn't fit any common definition of web3.

It's true that it doesn't fit the common definition of web3 but that's because it doesn't involve blockchains. Since anyone can implement the protocol and use it without the permission of other users, it fits any common definition of decentralization.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#143

Post by acdha »

mightybyte wrote: post #33
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #8

Having a web3 startup is just as inane as having a mongodb startup. Those technologies don‘t make anything possible that wasn‘t possible before. In any case: We are talking about this buzzwords for ~8 years now. Is there a list of useful web3 offerings by now? Any heavy hitters, killer applications? Anything besides wacky money making schemes like virtual sneakers?

> Having a web3 startup is just as inane as having a mongodb startup. Those technologies don‘t make anything possible that wasn‘t possible before. This is not true. The blockchain was/is a genuine technicalogical advance. It makes things possible that weren't before. From Wikipedia: "The implementation of the blockchain within bitcoin made it the first digital currency to solve the double-spending problem without the…

That's like saying that it's a technical advance if I make an engine powered by burning dollar bills. Yes, technically it's a thing which did not previously exist before but people do not have the problem of solving double-spending without trusting third-parties. People have problems like paying rent or selling things online — and it's quite conspicuous that when you ask Bitcoin users what they use it for other than speculation, you almost never hear an answer where you couldn't swap PayPal into the same sentence interchangeably. Now, at some point it could be cheaper but that's hardly the revolutionary advance promised in the marketing literature.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#144

Post by pwinnski »

TimJRobinson wrote: post #98

I think the OP is missing what those kids actually desire when they say web3 - self sovereignty. They grew up in an era where a few big tech companies control most of their experiences, and you're completely locked into them unable to escape even if you hate the platform because that's where all your friends are. Web3 is where you can have one digital login owned by you that you can use for many services and you can…

Self-sovereignty is an excellent goal, and it is true that something is lost when all of us use the same email service providers and social media sites and so on.

Web3 is unnecessary to achieve self-sovereignty, and is not going to help with any of that. It's a money-hungry fever dream by crypto maximalists and would damage the open web as much as the current status quo, while not actually fixing the current issues.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#145

Post by yao420 »

D13Fd wrote: post #134
yao420 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I studied CS and worked at 2 FAANGS before joining Coinbase in 2020 then a blockchain layer 1 a couple of months ago. Coinbase made me multiple 7 figures on IPO day and even with the crypto crash my current job has a cash salary of $350k and ~$200k in tokens. Yes the tech is not usually innovative or groundbreaking but nothing I worked on in my web2 career or college was cutting edge either. When looking for a new jo…

In other words, “yes I’m helping grifters scam people, but it sure pays well.”

Pretty much. After watching the Sackler family escape with billions despite destroying America with opioids I’ve come to the conclusion that America is garbage and there is nothing important here except money. I’m securing my family and their future, nothing else.

But yeah crypto grifts sucks but my college roommate now works at Goldman Sachs, an old university TA works Exxon offshore drilling, a couple of classmates are African logistics specialists (acquire land at ANY cost including literally lying to poor peasants to sign over property) at Bain. Is there a ranking for better or worse?

All of capitalism and by extension society is rotten to the core.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#146

Post by pwinnski »

TimJRobinson wrote: post #125
red_trumpet wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the OP is missing what those kids actually desire when they say web3 - self sovereignty. You might be right, but do they actually achieve this? > It's hosting your own website vs having a page on Facebook. I mean, running your own E-Mail or Mastodon instance is self sourvereignty in the way you propose. But I've never heard anyone claiming this to be web3.

They're presumably building a new company so it's about the direction that company is taking, not what already exists. Is the company trying to lock users into their platform? Or are they building open APIs, allowing users to easily export data, integrating with open technologies (ENS, Arweave, Login with Web3 etc)?

Everything you mention is just adding crypto scam to existing tech. We have OAuth, we don't need "Login with Web3." We have DNS, we don't need to introduce Ethereum to it.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#147

Post by dmitriid »

searchableguy wrote: post #63
colesantiago wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you deal with domain squatting or trademark violation? The current system does this well because of identity and web3 doesn't have any answer to this. Also I can host my own DNS server with my own domain name all decentralised without crypto scamming.

> How do you deal with domain squatting or trademark violation? In practice, it rarely works. Only big corporations have money to actually sue and win these cases. They usually prefer to pay however. Same with regards to other reasons people give for lack of adoption of crypto alternative. For example, lack of reversal and dispute handling is cited as the major reason why crypto currency isn't used for payments. That…

> UPI in India does not have ability to reverse transactions either. So does not countless p2p payment systems. UPI alone processes billions of transactions weekly.

There's a dispute mechanism which will eventually be escalated to a bank which does have the power to revert transcations https://www.npci.org.in/what-we-do/upi/dispute-redressal-mec...

Same with "countless p2p systems" because the majority of them are just an intermediary between banks. For example, here's Swish from Sweden: https://www.swish.nu/faq/private/i-accidentally-swished-the-...

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#148

Post by hocuspocus »

acdha wrote: post #103
hocuspocus wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't really worry about people with a college degree. At one point or another you remember you classes on distributed systems and you realize the entire space is bullshit. I agree we'll see bootcamp grads and other people from non-traditional backgrounds get burned but it also gives them opportunities that wouldn't exist otherwise, so I'm not sure it's a net negative overall. The much bigger issue lies within p…

> I wouldn't really worry about people with a college degree. At one point or another you remember you classes on distributed systems and you realize the entire space is bullshit. The number of people in the space with degrees from major CS programs suggests that we shouldn’t be confident about that. Smart people can talk themselves into a lot when there’s the prospect of being rich, and the poor architectural fit of…

This number is relatively small in my experience. I work on data intensive applications so I guess my department shows some selection bias, but I have yet to run into an intern or junior who thinks blockchains are a solution to anything worth solving.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#149

Post by UncleEntity »

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #126
greybeardednyc wrote: post #88

I definitely get the whole “web3” is useless argument for a lot of the cases it’s been proposed but like any new technology I think it may find valid use cases somewhere down the line. One of the few uses for which I am interested is “web3” identity - being able to keep ownership of my identity/credentials. Using, for example, a wallet to sign a message proving I own an address, I can build apps that don’t require me…

I like that concept of crypto being used for identity purposes. Sure there have been solutions like that for a long time but the difference here could be a much simpler way for average users to jump in. The technical knowledge needed to generate pgp or ssh keys is much higher than using a web UI to create a crypto wallet. A crypto wallet does sound similar to existing solutions like Open ID Connect but I think the di…

> The technical knowledge needed to generate pgp or ssh keys is much higher than using a web UI to create a crypto wallet.

Aren’t they all essentially the same? As in you can do any of those using the same library?

The main problem is nobody is throwing big piles of money at a ssh keygen API but a wallet generator, who do I make the check out to?

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#150

Post by hocuspocus »

enqk wrote: post #94
hocuspocus wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't really worry about people with a college degree. At one point or another you remember you classes on distributed systems and you realize the entire space is bullshit. I agree we'll see bootcamp grads and other people from non-traditional backgrounds get burned but it also gives them opportunities that wouldn't exist otherwise, so I'm not sure it's a net negative overall. The much bigger issue lies within p…

Are you sure that college degrees inoculate people against bullshit?

Of course not, I've seen crackpots at every level, especially PhDs/postdocs/professors when their lab's funding depended on exploring bullshit ideas.

However I see a strong negative correlation between CS literacy and gullibility regarding blockchains and web3. HN is a good illustration of this, crypto-cultists are always surprised so many people on here aren't buying any of it.

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