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India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

economictimes.indiatimes.com

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Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#141

Post by mrtksn »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #3

One of the best things about living in India is watching families move from lower or lower-middle class to middle-class status. Usually, all it takes is someone from the family landing a white-collar job. While the tech bodyshops (TCS, Infosys, etc.) might have a poor reputation in the US, these companies have been absolutely critical in helping move tens of millions into middle-class respectability.

> While the tech bodyshops (TCS, Infosys, etc.) might have a poor reputation in the US, these companies have been absolutely critical in helping move tens of millions into middle-class respectability.

The same goes for most "slavery" jobs. A lot of people's fortunes has turned all over the world by working under "inhumane" condition for American or European companies.

These are actually good jobs in respect to state of play in these countries. The harm comes from degrading the employment standard in the rich countries where it's impossible to compete with places like China when they work under these conditions and as a result the jobs with "humane" conditions disappear in the wealthy countries or get worse.

Overall though, the world becomes a better places as the people in the developed countries get their stuff for cheap and people in the developing world catch up.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#142

Post by akudha »

wobbly_bush wrote: post #129
akudha wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything is rosy though. In cities like Bangalore, real estate is super expensive, thanks to software salaries. The same is happening in second, third tier cities now. But generally speaking, yes, all it takes is one person from a family landing a white collar job. And life becomes (relatively) much better

Real estate will get more expensive due to political greed than any other kind of development. The supply of real estate is artificially constrained by the political class, so any kind of development (say hypothetically manufacturing instead of software) will make it expensive. There used to be a time when new land for building houses was frequently sold by the government in the form of new "colonies", but that has c…

What you are describing is one part of the problem.

I have friends who earn in dollars. They can easily afford to buy a couple of apartments every year. They do this and let those apartments sit vacant for a few years, waiting for them to appreciate. When many people start doing this, it artificially inflates the prices.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#143

Post by burntbridge »

TotoHorner wrote: post #35
richard___ wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do so many people on HN hate on China? What's your relationship with Chinese people in your personal life?

Hating the CCP != hating Chinese people. Amazing that this needs to be said...

And when there is a war?

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#144

Post by ClumsyPilot »

jimbokun wrote: post #117
G3rn0ti wrote: post #49

Technically, India did not do this. The people lifted themselves out of poverty because, finally, India‘s government had granted them enough freedom to pursue their happiness.

Doesn't "India" include the Indian people?

What are you going to suggest next, a company consists of employees and a chair is made of atoms?

To neoliberalism, Countries and Companies are like the ghosts. They have a will of their own, they are immaterial and can't be pinned down.

Together with the omnipotent and omnibenevolent Invisible Hand they form the Trinity and Haunt the stock market.

If there is a recession, it is never a structural problem in the market, it is always because the consumers have sinned.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#145

Post by jialutu »

I am really baffled by this claim, since I've been observing the Global Hunger Index for a while, where India has consistently fared worse than even DPRK (North Korea), and is almost the same level as Afghanistan, a country that has been at war for 20 years. https://www.globalhungerindex.org/

I am not sure if these 2 reports are contradictory, or whether they are in agreement with each other (since the GHI score for India has been trending downwards). Does anyone who is more knowledgeable on this please explain?

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#146

Post by gandalfgeek »

newsclues wrote: post #85

Hasn't there been recent news about toxic pollution in the region? What good is lifting people out of poverty, if they are lifted out of poverty and placed in a toxic urban environment?

This line of reasoning needs to be stopped. If you haven't lived or grown up through India's pre-capitalist era you have no idea what you're talking about. Ask any Indian about it and I think they'll tell you that urban pollution is a small price to pay for the distance they've come in terms of overall quality of life and wealth.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#147

Post by chiefalchemist »

largepeepee wrote: post #74
m4jor wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nation-state hackers from Russia and China are certainly running active campaigns in US elections to disrupt or manipulate them. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/10/17/chinese-h... Best evidence of this is the previous 2020 elections.

Sure they are, which countries aren't interested in the most powerful country that constantly exports their problems.(our debt is YOUR problem) But the coverage is probably outsized to their actual impact compared to the hundreds of billions spent by the local monopolies trying to influence the elections themselves. Trump ignoring his personal issues for a moment, has shown with his rise and fall, just how much of th…

> with his rise and fall,

Not being daft, but what fall? Sure the non-Right media wants to paint him as a has-been, but that's revisionist history, and wishful thinking.

Key fact: Trump in losing received more votes than Obama in either of BO's victory. Yet Obama is generally painted as popular and love, and Trump a nothing?

I'm not a fan of DT but a false hope in a false narrative is an opportunity for him to exploit.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#148

Post by Montaque »

endisneigh wrote: post #43
mensetmanusman wrote: post #15

Such an awesome accomplishment. Also, it’s interestingly a huge black eye to the CCP: news of this Indian accomplishment will be censored in China, because it proves that nations can progress without forced-sterilization/-abortion/-1-child-policy/authoritarianism/ etc.

Why would it be a black eye to the ccp when they’ve lifted twice as many from poverty as India? And far higher growth, gdp per capita, etc. weird comment https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/l...

Linked article is roughly double the time frame referenced for India. Its in the world's largest democracy. Benevolent dictatorships work for as long ad the dictator(s) remains Benevolent.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#149

Post by Shoue »

damagednoob wrote: post #36

I don't understand poverty statistics. With this news, the UK now has more people living in poverty than India (16% vs 22%?). If it is valuable to judge poverty on relative income, you would think the rational course of action would be mass immigration from the UK to India but that is clearly not the case.

Relative measures are important because it's an indicator of how fairly domestic resources are being allocated. You can be a poor country but have resources fairly allocated among the population, and you can be a rich country and have resources unfairly allocated among the population. It's a good indicator of how well people at the bottom are being taken care of, and the ideal scenario is a rich country with low income inequality, which the Nordic countries are probably the best examples of.

You can use measures that are less country-specific like the Gini coefficient and UN R/P to measure domestic inequality between countries:

The UK has a Gini coefficient of 35.1, a UN R/P 10% of 13.8

India has a Gini coefficient of 35.7, a UN R/P 10% of 8.6

For reference, Norway has a Gini coefficient of 27.7, and a UN R/P 10% of 6.1

(higher = more inequality)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_eq...

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#150

Post by ClumsyPilot »

jimbokun wrote: post #122
DimitriPetrova wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently the Multidimensional Poverty Measure is defined as; An index that captures the percentage of households in a country deprived along three dimensions of well-being – monetary poverty, education, and basic infrastructure services – to provide a more complete picture of poverty. There's also the Multidimensional Poverty Index which has an alternate definition

But is there a greater percentage of people in UK deprived along any of those dimensions?

Uk has 4.1 million children in poverty, or 30%. It now more food banks than macdonalds.

Poorer counties often have large families, government programs for food distribution and many people growing their own food.

You might have empty bank account but you will have something to eat and some roof over your head, even if you are crashing at family place or it's illegal construction on a land thats not technically yours.

If you are poor in London you will just starve and freese to death

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