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Indian Air Force inducts natively developed light combat helicopter ‘Prachanda’

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Re: Indian Air Force inducts natively developed light combat helicopter ‘Prachanda’

#141

Post by lifeisstillgood »

boruto wrote: post #135
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #71

My takeaway is that India can use this as a means to get greater internal investment - every $Xm dollars a copter costa is not sent to US firms but becomes grist to the mill for Indian metalworkers, Indian engine manufacturers etc etc. Just keep the corruption out of the process and let the multiplier do its work.

But should it be seen like that? I guess they just think about uninterrupted supplies during war time and cost of imported labour.

Yes I think it should be seen that way

1. Governments spending tax dollars should make efforts to keep the multiplier in their economy. For something like a hi-tech helicopter there will be a supply chain hundreds of firms long, many small and looking to grow and provide jobs.

2. India has an advantage (certainly compared to US purchases, maybe less to Soviet via China) in labour costs - building a helicopter to the "same" spec in India just costs less than in Ohio, and that means more copter for your rupee

3. Pretty much every government in wartime finds out its supply chains are borked - there is always a shell crisis. It's one reason the US armed forces are so effective - they have been in live wars for thirty years. No chance for a torpedo to be developed that simply does not explode.

Re: Indian Air Force inducts natively developed light combat helicopter ‘Prachanda’

#142

Post by currydove »

rtev wrote: post #140
sandworm101 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Indian naming always gives sci-fi kind of vibe. In an ironic twist of linguistic history, most US combat helicopters were given American "indian" names (Apache, Comanche, Black Hawk etc). I like such conventions. I wish that more nations adopted and stuck to them when introducing new equipment.

Why continue to use the incorrect and offensive term “indians”? You even quoted it, so I’m confused why you used it at all.

Tl;Dr: it's tricky. and because it's not that simple.

I don't know your background and maybe you're from a first nation or tribe, but there isn't a common agreement between the populations of existing tribes and nations on what is offensive or incorrect. This isn't to say that any term is acceptable, but Indians, however incorrectly labeled by a colonizing group a few hundred years ago, is literally how some choose to identify themselves here in North America.

I say this as someone from India and event there, there isn't a common agreement or knowledge to arrive at an "inoffensive" term for folks who live here. Most just use the descriptor left by the British and say "Red Indians" with no malice implied.

this was interesting to watch - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh88fVP2FWQ

Re: Indian Air Force inducts natively developed light combat helicopter ‘Prachanda’

#143

Post by devnull3 »

kumarvvr wrote: post #129
Existenceblinks wrote: post #50

As a thai whose nation adopted lots of Pali/Sanskrit words, I have to look up the word origin https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/pracanda because I suddenly understand the meaning of "Prachan", in thai it means "confront". Indian naming always gives sci-fi kind of vibe.

Most Indian defense systems are named in Sanskrit. Agni, Vayu, Brahmos, Prithvi, etc.

> Brahmos

Nitpick: It is actually amalgamation of Indian & Russian rivers. Brahmaputra (India) and Moskva (Russia)

Re: Indian Air Force inducts natively developed light combat helicopter ‘Prachanda’

#144

Post by sandworm101 »

rtev wrote: post #140
sandworm101 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Indian naming always gives sci-fi kind of vibe. In an ironic twist of linguistic history, most US combat helicopters were given American "indian" names (Apache, Comanche, Black Hawk etc). I like such conventions. I wish that more nations adopted and stuck to them when introducing new equipment.

Why continue to use the incorrect and offensive term “indians”? You even quoted it, so I’m confused why you used it at all.

As I said, "in an ironic twist of linguistic history".

This is a story about a new helicopter, in India. But in the america's long ago "indian" was applied to indigenous groups by people looking for a route to India who didn't know where they were. And then, centuries later, the names for those groups were adopted as names for American helicopters. It is a long joke that I guess not everyone can appreciate.

Re: Indian Air Force inducts natively developed light combat helicopter ‘Prachanda’

#145

Post by jablongo »

rtev wrote: post #140
sandworm101 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Indian naming always gives sci-fi kind of vibe. In an ironic twist of linguistic history, most US combat helicopters were given American "indian" names (Apache, Comanche, Black Hawk etc). I like such conventions. I wish that more nations adopted and stuck to them when introducing new equipment.

Why continue to use the incorrect and offensive term “indians”? You even quoted it, so I’m confused why you used it at all.

Because it’s not offensive or incorrect. American Indians have adopted and use the term themselves. Most official American Indian organizations are named as such, and not as “Native American” or “First Nations”, though the latter is also catching on, especially in Canada.

Re: Indian Air Force inducts natively developed light combat helicopter ‘Prachanda’

#146

Post by closewith »

dfc wrote: post #103
closewith wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main saving grace of a system like this is that the munitions, unguided rockets and cannon rounds, are pretty cheap. In contrast while drones are much cheaper than the chopper, they’re very expensive as munitions. Based on the current war in Ukraine, this isn't true at all. Even relatively expensive loitering munitions (compare to mortars dropped from DJI drones) like the Switchblade 600 cost in the range of $1…

> There is no scenario in which a manned rotary craft competes with a drone on cost. What drone competes with a manned MH-74 on cost? It seems like the traditional drone advantages disappear when the payload is humans.

Every drone competes favourably with Chinook on cost.

What you are comparing is capability, not cost, and by definition you cannot have an unmanned helicopter with pax.

To be honest, your reply is so disingenuous that I wonder if you're trolling?

Re: Indian Air Force inducts natively developed light combat helicopter ‘Prachanda’

#147

Post by mrphoebs »

squarefoot wrote: post #123
1024core wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By your reasoning, Germany and Italy are siding with Russia too, by buying Russian oil and gas. Physician, heal thyself. First let the EU stop buying Russian oil and gas, and then they can preach to others.

Did you read the article? "Despite U.S.-led efforts to isolate Russia’s economy and hasten the war’s end, India has chosen to increase imports of Russian oil ten-fold, while increasing that of fertilizer eight-fold. Together with China, Indian purchases of Russian goods have largely negated the effect of transatlantic energy sanctions, and India further funds Russia’s war machine by purchasing big-ticket items, such…

The article reads like a self serving western narrative loosely based on cherry picked facts.

India has clearly stated it will buy cheap oil where ever it's available on the market, there is nothing special about russia, look up the actual quantities of oil and LNG imports from russia to india vs india's other suppliers.

What made india load up on russian oil is the incredibly short-sighted and ineffective sanctions on russian oil from the west that only made russian oil available at a discount.

EU didn't stop buying russian gas, russia and the nord stream pipeline saboteurs didn't give them a choice. And if you want to talk about war profiteering look to the profits of american oil and LNG companies that are replacing EU's supplies and rift it's causing between EU and USA.

Energy is the lifeblood of any human society/economy, A country of 1.4 billion with a per capita GDP that india has cannot afford to take a hypocritical moral Highground when doing so in an environment with rising energy prices means people starve.

Not trying to defend India here, I don't think there is anything to defend. I don't think people truly comprehend how deeply rooted agenda driven narratives are in western media. I mean it's not unique to western media but the diversity of narratives in the west unlike the sanctioned narrative in china gives people in the west this false illusion that the lens their media is seeing the world through must be accurate(it isn't).

Another agenda driven narrative recently being put forward is Saudi Arabia siding with russia over the US. Why? because OPEC didn't follow US's lead on market manipulation (price caps, crude supply) and dared to think and act independently.

Re: Indian Air Force inducts natively developed light combat helicopter ‘Prachanda’

#148

Post by bee_rider »

closewith wrote: post #146
dfc wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no scenario in which a manned rotary craft competes with a drone on cost. What drone competes with a manned MH-74 on cost? It seems like the traditional drone advantages disappear when the payload is humans.

Every drone competes favourably with Chinook on cost. What you are comparing is capability, not cost, and by definition you cannot have an unmanned helicopter with pax. To be honest, your reply is so disingenuous that I wonder if you're trolling?

> Every drone competes favourably with Chinook on cost.

Technically the space shuttle had limited autopilot capabilities so you could see it as a drone carrying humans, one of which happens to be a pilot who will control it at other times, but that's just a coincidence. And it was way expensive. You fool, you absolute fool.

And anyway, what is a fly-by-wire system, but a drone that is piloted remotely... for very small definitions of "remote."

I dunno. I don't think there's any productive discussion possible with people who are (for some reason) willing to ignore context and widen your claims so you can be wrong.

Re: Indian Air Force inducts natively developed light combat helicopter ‘Prachanda’

#149

Post by closewith »

bee_rider wrote: post #148
closewith wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every drone competes favourably with Chinook on cost. What you are comparing is capability, not cost, and by definition you cannot have an unmanned helicopter with pax. To be honest, your reply is so disingenuous that I wonder if you're trolling?

> Every drone competes favourably with Chinook on cost. Technically the space shuttle had limited autopilot capabilities so you could see it as a drone carrying humans, one of which happens to be a pilot who will control it at other times, but that's just a coincidence. And it was way expensive. You fool, you absolute fool. And anyway, what is a fly-by-wire system, but a drone that is piloted remotely... for very sma…

> I dunno. I don't think there's any productive discussion possible with people who are (for some reason) willing to ignore context and widen your claims so you can be wrong.

I feel like you may be in need of some introspection.

Re: Indian Air Force inducts natively developed light combat helicopter ‘Prachanda’

#150

Post by bee_rider »

closewith wrote: post #149
bee_rider wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every drone competes favourably with Chinook on cost. Technically the space shuttle had limited autopilot capabilities so you could see it as a drone carrying humans, one of which happens to be a pilot who will control it at other times, but that's just a coincidence. And it was way expensive. You fool, you absolute fool. And anyway, what is a fly-by-wire system, but a drone that is piloted remotely... for very sma…

> I dunno. I don't think there's any productive discussion possible with people who are (for some reason) willing to ignore context and widen your claims so you can be wrong. I feel like you may be in need of some introspection.

I agree with you, my comments were sarcastic :)
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