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WhatsApp goes down for users globally

theguardian.com

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Re: WhatsApp goes down for users globally

#141

Post by jraph »

MattJ100 wrote: post #131
jraph wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has decentralization today , but also no users today . I would be happy with it but my contact list quite empty. I'm not outright rejecting XMPP. I would like it very much to just use XMPP, but something needs to happen. It needs to be easy to use, friction-less, have all the fancy features and probably more to sell than Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger and Matrix at the same time, which is no small…

My humble solution to this is Snikket: https://snikket.org/ I can't claim it has exact feature parity with Signal/Telegram/WhatsApp, but it has all the important stuff and is good enough for my family to use daily. It also has some advantages, such as not requiring a phone number (which e.g. means that my children can use it on the old "living room tablet"). Snikket counters the "empty contact list" problem and the n…

Okay, this actually looks like a serious attempt at solving the exact problems I pointed out! I wish you all the best for Snikket! Congratulations and thanks for working on this issue that definitely needs a solution.

Is there a desktop app for Snikket?

Re: WhatsApp goes down for users globally

#142

Post by gorgoiler »

rglullis wrote: post #38
Ayesh wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I don't even know if that upper post was meant to be sarcastic. Telegram, despite the security theater, is amazing UX-wise. It's such a joy to use and I see myself more and more engaging with Telegram contacts just because it's convenient in many subtle yet impactful ways.

You can improve the UX of Matrix clients. You can not make Telegram decentralized or take it out of control of one single entity.

The paradox is that if you have the skillset to improve the Matrix UX, you’re probably off doing something else for 10x the impact.

Re: WhatsApp goes down for users globally

#143

Post by oakpond »

smallerfish wrote: post #113
rglullis wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Not OP, but that's not a fair statement. Checking the box of ideals doesn't mean that open source software is off the hook in having to compete on features. Regular users do not give a rat's ass about source code being open; it's an extremely abstract concept if you're not in the field. All they care about is free as in beer. Matrix can either target the niche demographic of the highly technical, or it needs to level…

I think you're right, but perhaps more aggressive marketing already helps a lot.

I'm not a marketing person, but for example, take advantage of these kind of events to let people know that Matrix's network is impossible to go down like this because it works like e-mail.

Reiterate the point that Whatsapp is part of Facebook's network. So, your Whatsapp account is under Facebook's control just like your Facebook account. Matrix accounts work like e-mail addresses. You choose a provider for your account, and you can always choose a different one without losing access to the network.

Present these kinds of talking points to the actual mainstream. Advertise on Youtube, go on TV... maybe people care less about the UX than we think.

Re: WhatsApp goes down for users globally

#144

Post by mbg721 »

cyphar wrote: post #132
DocTomoe wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been discouraged to use that form because native English speakers have corrected me that unless I am a British monarch, it would be incorrect language use.

Maybe I'm missing a joke, but this is not the case unless you're using "one" as a way of referring to yourself. Saying "one could" to mean "someone could" is perfectly standard English.

One does have to be a little careful with that... It's generally old-fashioned, and can end up sounding sarcastic or passive-aggressive if the statement is obviously meant to refer to a particular person. (Cf. the upper-Midwestern "a guy could" or "a lotta guys", as in "A lotta guys would have made sure that was tied to the roof of the car before they drove off.")

Re: WhatsApp goes down for users globally

#145

Post by ryukafalz »

tjixxu wrote: post #74
chagaif wrote: post #26

Time to talk about matrix.org and Element not Signal and definitely not Telegram...

The Matrix team seems to be focusing on anything but making it as performant and usable as Telegram or Slack. The project leaders have been told this multiple times but there is always a reason.

Speak for yourself. The recent addition of space-protected rooms eliminated one of the biggest issues preventing my local hackerspace from using it.

(Of course, it did so roughly as we finally qualified for the nonprofit Slack plan, so it was a bit too late to have a real advantage - but it's an option now where it wasn't before.)

Re: WhatsApp goes down for users globally

#146

Post by ddevault »

asim wrote: post #139
chagaif wrote: post #26

Time to talk about matrix.org and Element not Signal and definitely not Telegram...

I'm sorry but matrix is a convoluted mess. Speaking from experience, when there's a deep focus on protocols and technical architecture before usability it becomes incredibly hard for the consumer side to get started. It's still very much a DIY thing and the promise of Element hosted offerings kind of just defies the point of the federated design for what most came into it for, self hosting. Honestly, we just need a d…

Funny, my criticisms of Matrix are that it puts usability (or at least UI/UX) before the technical details.

Re: WhatsApp goes down for users globally

#147

Post by barbariangrunge »

d0mine wrote: post #72
mritzmann wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram (per default) does not have end-to-end encryption.

"Telegram is more secure than mass market messengers like WhatsApp and Line." https://telegram.org/faq#q-how-secure-is-telegram

“Local man is taller and braver than other men” - says local man

Re: WhatsApp goes down for users globally

#148

Post by jonnybgood »

sneak wrote: post #76
dustedcodes wrote: post #44

Even though I do have WhatsApp I wouldn't have noticed without this HN headline. Everyone I message with is via iMessage or Signal nowadays and I only have WhatsApp because I am part of a few sports clubs which have a WhatsApp group but we don't chat enough for me to notice a downtime like today. Makes me happy to see how I've actually managed to rid myself of WhatsApp for the most part.

WhatsApp is end to end encrypted and AFAIK now has encrypted backups. iMessage intentionally preserves a backdoor in its crypto so that the FBI can read approximately every iMessage sent/received without a warrant, should they so desire.

> iMessage intentionally preserves a backdoor in its crypto so that the FBI can read approximately every iMessage sent/received without a warrant, should they so desire.

Would be great if you provide a source for that.

Re: WhatsApp goes down for users globally

#149

Post by gaius_baltar »

londons_explore wrote: post #82
d0mine wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Telegram is more secure than mass market messengers like WhatsApp and Line." https://telegram.org/faq#q-how-secure-is-telegram

I don't agree with that claim. While there is no e2e encryption, the number of people that can see the chats between me and my mother has just gone from two (me and her) to 500 (all the engineers on the telegram team). Also, being based in the UAE doesn't inspire confidence on the privacy and security front... Nor the fact they promised to release yearly transparency reports and then never did so... Or the fact Der S…

> the number of people that can see the chats between me and my mother has just gone from two (me and her) to 500 (all the engineers on the telegram team).

And everyone from all companies to which Telegram will sell the data once they figure that there is a good money to be made from it.

If they have the plain text data they can do whatever they want with it.

Re: WhatsApp goes down for users globally

#150

Post by white_dragon88 »

rglullis wrote: post #128
throwamon wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they should care about [...] And there's your problem. Regular users do not give a rat's ass about your should s. In addition, for example, I've never seen any serious UX bugs in Telegram, and I've seen many in Element. Regular users care waaay more about that than some vague notion of "reliability".

> your shoulds They are not mine. It's not my data that is being mined and it's not my business that can disappear if WhatsApp goes offline. Yeah, I'm fully aware that people generally don't care about any of that. Lots of people also don't care about their eating habits, the effects of their economic actions, etc, etc. But if they don't want to face the bad consequences of their choices, they should .

Therefore the idea will continue to flounder indefinitely, used by a microscopically small user base representing a microscopically small niche of the market. In effect it doesn’t exist and has negligible impact on the bigger picture. But at least you get to feel like you did the right thing, right?
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